permaculture

[Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>]

I vote for Toby on this.  a thing is what it is, as they say, and while 
I am not an afficianado of the Zone 00 concept, I had not thought of the 
interior state of the designer AND the clients (if designing for someone 
else) as a sector per se.  That I think is a really useful concept.

Bob Waldrop, Okie City

PS.  Allow me to once more announce my permaculture workshop on local 
food systems in Denver, August 8-9.
https://www.facebook.com/events/658163574267951/


On 7/7/2014 12:06 PM, Toby Hemenway wrote:
> Elizabeth's essay, which is beautiful and compelling, also illustrates my point 
> perfectly. Zone Zero in her use is not a zone and is not used to design with like any 
> zone. It's just a word to mean "the inner state of the designer" that has 
> nothing to do with zones. She, nor anyone else I've ever seen, has used it as a zone 
> that can have elements placed in it or be arranged with respect to frequency of use, or 
> has any thing else in common with zones. For the 90th time, I am not arguing that 
> personal work is unimportant. I'm arguing that Zone 0 is a dumb term for it.
>
> Steve, I'm surprised (okay, not really, given your general orneriness) at 
> your crack about who appointed me god. You repeatedly criticize that 
> permaculture is being weakened and watered down, and zone 0 is a perfect 
> example--I would have thought you glad to see someone else is concerned about 
> standards and would support it instead of throwing snark (and who appointed 
> you god to do so?). We're all gods in permaculture--that is, this is a system 
> that is regulated from inside, and it's up to each of us to try to keep the 
> standards high.
>   
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 6:05 AM, mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My first wife, who made her living as a yoga teacher and a teacher of 
> > improvisation in the arts, used the idea of Zone Zero constantly in her 
> > classes and teaching.  Here's an essay she wrote about Zone Zero that was 
> > widely circulated in the mid 90s.
> >
> > http://dreamtimevillage.org/articles/taking_off_zone_zero.html
> >
> > I should qualify this post by saying she was an anarchist and was never 
> > interested in Permaculture with a capital.  Sadly for all of us, she died 
> > suddenly of pancreatic cancer in 2004.
> >
> > ~mIEKAL
> >
> >
> > On Jul 7, 2014, at 1:08 AM, Steve Hart wrote:
> >
> > > ZONE 00...I too have a degree of disquiet about Z00....as Mollison
> > > said...it was never part of the curriculum...but hey try and tell that to
> > > the thousands out there who are seriously committed to this sector. So
> > > perhaps the problem is the solution...work with it not against it. After
> > > all there are a lot of people, more every day it seems, that need this
> > > designing or often redesigning. A bit like reinventing ? Often too great a
> > > Design Challenge.
> > >
> > > Like Biodynamics...Mollison said ..ahh thatsFairies at the bottom of the
> > > garden shit...but when one actually takes the time to scratch the surface
> > > and explore the deeper corridors there we see tremendous opportunity and
> > > value not wise to ignore.
> > >
> > > Besides who invited you Toby to be the god in " cleaning up ambiguities and
> > > logical inconsistencies that weaken permaculture terminology" ? Perhaps
> > > better time spent on cleaning up all the standards or lack of them as per
> > > Scott Pittman's recent podcast. God bless you...Steve Hart
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6 July 2014 22:57, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've posted some thoughts on why I think zone 00 as the state of the
> > > > designer's mind is a bad term.
> > > >
> > > > It's at:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.patternliteracy.com/816-zone-00-right-intentions-wrong-term
> > > >
> > > > Zone 00: Right Intentions, Wrong Term
> > > >
> > > > "One of my pet projects is to clean up the ambiguities and logical
> > > > inconsistencies that weaken permaculture terminology. Today I take aim at
> > > > the term Zone 00, used to mean either the designer or user of a
> > > > permaculture design, or their inner state. It’s a concept spawned by good
> > > > intentions, but calling it a zone is logically inconsistent, redundant, and
> > > > worst of all, has no design use. The designer’s mind is a crucial
> > > > influence, but it’s not a zone. If it’s an influence on a design, that
> > > > makes it a sector, right? (If you just slapped your forehead and said
> > > > “Doh!” then you need read no further.) So let’s stop using the term zone
> > > > 00."
> > > >
> > > > Enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > Toby
> > > > http://patternliteracy.com
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > > [image: Picture]
> > > *Steve Hart*
> > > Ecology Architect
> > > skype: stevenlawrencehart
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> > > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers 
> > > -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for 
> > > synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human 
> > > habitat
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> > How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> > http://www.ipermie.net
> > Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers 
> > -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for 
> > synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human 
> > habitat
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> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers 
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements for 
> synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible human 
> habitat

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