permaculture

[Dieter Brand <diebrand@yahoo.com>]

Lawrence,

Linda did not advocate the use of terrorism. She said that in this World of 
ours, terrorism grasps attention while those who resort to peaceful means to 
protest against oppression are ignored. That is a fact if we like it or not. 
She also said that those who resort to violence will perish by violence. That 
too is a fact.

Gandhi was an exception for three reasons. You can successfully resort to 
nonviolent methods if your opponent can be shamed into admitting that the use 
of massive force against non-violent resistance is immoral. But if a regime 
is capable of massacring its unarmed civilians by tanks as it happened in 
Tienanmen Square, than that regime has no shame. Secondly, the British in 
India were in the role of the foreign occupier, which in itself is prove of 
injustice. And finally, the colonial period had come to a close anyways as a 
result of WWII.

I think we should not bedevil the Chinese either. The Chinese are capable of 
the whole range of human emotions, like all human beings. It is just the 
dynamics of the present regime that is a problem, a problem for Tibet, for 
China itself and for the whole World. In fact, the use of suicide to protest 
against oppression has been used in Chinese history. A person who had been 
ruined by a powerful clan would have as last resort suicide committed in 
front of the residence of his oppressor in order to publicly shame him. For 
this strategy to work, it needs to take place in public. If news of the 
self-immolation of Tibetans is suppressed by the Chinese or if Western media 
stops reporting about it, it will fail and the suffering of the Tibetans will 
be forgotten.

Dieter 



--- On Tue, 3/12/13, venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] The people of Tibet need help now - Boing Boing
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Tuesday, March 12, 2013, 6:48 AM
> On 3/11/2013 10:39 PM, Linda wrote:
> > Totally agree with you Dieter. And yes only terrorism
> works - which
> 
> Some troll.
> 
> Dieter did not say that at all. Did you think about what he
> was saying?
> 
> Would the Dalai Lama say anything like that, or even think
> it? Of course 
> not. That goes for 100% of the Tibetan people. Terrorism
> does not work. 
> Ever. Tibetans would be highly insulted at your assertion,
> thinking that you must not be particularly concerned about
> them to make 
> such a shallow statement, so disconnected from reality.
> 
> > is why in the end inherently decent people resort to
> inherently
> > indecent acts to get the world's attention. And the
> others don't even
> 
> No they do not. "The world" will not reward terrorism. Evil
> is; evil 
> begets evil. Those who resort to that have arrived at the
> last stage of 
> defeat, having abandoned the tools they could have used to
> make any 
> gains for themselves and the oppressors win.
> 
> > have a Dalai Lama! So the Palestinians resorted to it,
> as did the
> > Tamils etc. But in this world it gets you both
> attention and
> > condemnation - no win situation. Why can't people and
> governments
> > understand that while we suppress some to lift others -
> eventually
> 
> We?
> 
> > the suppressed will uprise, or resort to crime, or
> violence... then
> > everyone loses...
> 
> No they will not. I can't believe the things you are
> saying.
> Remember Ghandi? MLK? Nonviolence. End of story.
> 
> People working together to achieve goals, peacefully,
> works.
> That is true power. True communism works, for those who want
> that kind 
> of lifestyle, that kind of society; it provides. For others,
> capitalism
> serves their needs. It seems the world is moving away from
> both except 
> in places where people work together and stand firm for
> survival, 
> autonomy, sovereignty and independence, peacefully.
> 
> LL
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