permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 12/15/2010 3:08 PM, Smith Mill Creek wrote:
> To all on the list-
> I'd like to thank Larry London for not filtering out this exchange
> between Shivani and Killian.

If I had suspected he would publically post inflammatory private email I 
would have put him on moderation and deleted his message before it got 
to to the list.

> I think a number of points come out for me.
>
> 1- I think Killian used some angry and judgment language reacting to
> Shivani
> (this is regardless of where I stand on seeds).

> 2- Shivani is demonstrating that a number of folks would like the
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org list (how many subscribers are there?)
> to have a moderation that is perceived to be less arbitrary.

930 and my moderation is hardly arbitrary but with considerable purpose
and forethought. You see the end product, a useful if not vital forum 
since 1992 to continue well into the future.

That person is working hard counter to what most of here stand for, 
individual rights and grass roots, traditional, pure permaculture and 
natural agriculture.

As my good friend and ally, Paul Wheaton has said and Sepp Holzer
as well, the permaculture third ethic is way too often interpreted as a 
license to freely indulge in stealing. Count me as a third advocate of 
this idea.

> 3- I think folks would like more of a "sensible commons" approach to the
> list because they feel it fits in with permaculture, which is about the
> question, not just about what I should do about my quarter-acre of land;
> but how 7 billion of us share this planet. We haven't mastered
> "commons-ology", but many of us think an effort worth pursuing.

You're not likely to get that with some because they do not believe in 
it or are just not interested in that type of communal approach. But 
they could change. Agriculture is a vital part of permaculture and it is 
important for the permaculture communiy to support local small and 
family farming, preserving traditions and using sustainable, natural 
methods.

This latest disruptive event represented mostly a lot of hot air and 
puff speeches; in this case ignorant uninformed anti sustainable small 
farm mindlessness, airhead groupie or entrepreneurial agent provocateur 
with no interest in supporting America's emerging small sustainable 
farming movement at a critical time in its development. Those types 
appear from time to time in this and other lists and when discovered are 
permanently locked out.

> 4- Moderating permaculture listservs is never easy. Discussion like this
> have been pursued at length on the Portland, OR permaculture list.

Its a piece of cake.

> 5- I heard something perceptive from a permaculture teacher two years
> ago.In his fifties, he'd been teaching permaculture for decades. He
> pondered that the permaculture culture had been influenced by a famously
> grumpy and curmudgeonly founder. It does seem to be that the younger
> generation seems to be overcoming this syndrome.

Yes and Mollison wrote a book that may never be equalled as a pure 
permaculture textbook. Entry level permaculturists need to read it in 
its entirety and absorb all that it has to teach.

> I hope my two cents is helpful. I would like to see a sensibly moderated
> commons.

What do you propose, Jim? What changes would you like to see.

LL