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  • From: Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Nicholas permaculture generation gap
  • Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:15:04 -0700 (PDT)

Thanks, Nicholas, for one of the more thoughtful and solution-focused
messages of late.  I have been thinking about the generational differences
between Boomers and younger folks, especially as they relate to permaculture
efforts, and I do feel they are significant.  I largely agree with your
analysis, however I feel there is one important aspect that you left out. 
Boomers may have had it easier in some ways, but many were truly hard-working
pioneers in other ways, creating options for later generations.  We now have
easy access to vegetarian and vegan food, renewable energy, ecobuilding
techniques, community land ownership models, permaculture design, etc.  Many
also worked harder than I think most younger folks are willing to work.  The
stories I have read and listened to about the original back-to-the-landers
make me feel like a wimp.  The current generation has a sense of entitlement
and an expectation that things should be easy.  They are
also even more alienated from physical labor.  I speak from personal
experience.  Younger people also have more educational, entertainment, and
other opportunities and the society is more mobile, so it is hard to get
younger folks to commit to a place or project.  Whole segments of society
seem adrift. 
 
Your comment about rent-seeking retirees seems right on, however.  I feel too
many otherwise progressive folks too easily accept the idea that it is okay
to take money you didn't earn yourself.  The lack of questioning of the
capitalist, class-based system makes me squirm.  On the other hand, I cringe
when I see how few of my well-intentioned friends have means to create
sustainable systems without using the property they have access to to
generate money through renting it out.  We need to come up with more ways to
raise immediate funds while still giving equity to those paying "rent."
 
 
Rain



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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:18:21 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: [SANET-MG] Restructuring the food system
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What does this have to do with permaculture? Professional opportunities
for permaculturists beyond teaching, doing research and becoming an
information provider, consulting and running permaculture organizations
are in the field of agriculture, i.e. farming, market farming (all its
variants) and small to micro scale market gardening. There is a
challenge to bring permaculture to agricultural production systems,
including multi-thousand acre farms.

On 8/25/2010 11:05 AM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SANET-MG] Restructuring the food system
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:38:03 -0700
> From: Mary-Howell & Klaas Martens <kandmhfarm@SPRINTMAIL.COM>
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
> "So we ban large-scale, intensive livestock production and restructure
> to what? What system will provide the eggs, poultry and meat to the
> cities in the U.S.?"
>
> The 'efficiencies' of large scale industrial animal production are
> nothing more than an urban myth. If you take away the subsidies that
> underpin modern agriculture including the externalized costs and the
> market consolidation that gives a few companies control of the
> distribution system, factory animal production units will collapse in
> red ink.
>
> DeCoster is a very good example. They have left a trail of destruction,
> deception, bad business deals, and bankruptcies in their wake wherever
> they have been. Small communities are left to clean up the mess and pay
> the damages after they have gone.
>
> Many small Mennonite and Amish farms have production efficiencies that
> put the 'big boys' to shame. The number of sick and crippled feeder pigs
> that hog factories dispose of regularly is disgraceful. They wean less
> live healthy pigs per litter than small farmers did 40 years ago. The
> number of dead chickens that come out of broiler houses and the number
> of dead cows on factory dairy farms has led to the practice of
> composting mortalities to reduce the stench.
>
> Take away the huge doses of antibiotics (including lots of illegal ones)
> these places use and they will go under in a very short time. The term
> 'animal husbandry' once meant something. It carried with it a
> responsibility to both the animals and the consumers who ate them. There
> are still plenty of farmers in this country who understand what it means
> to practice true animal husbandry. Those operations who don't need to
> either clean up their acts or they should be shut down.
>
> Klaas


<>

I grew up on a 1950's vintage poultry farm. Back then here in New Jersey
there were thousands of small poultry farms with a few hundred to a few
thousand birds. Every evening we would collect eggs and the whole family
would be in the basement washing candling grading and boxing eggs in 30
dozen crates that we shipped to a co-op. You might be surprised to know
that this nightly ritual was repeated in millions of households across
the United States. Everybody was small scale, everybody made a little
money, nobody got rich or dominated over anybody else. Every county had
small feed mills, poultry vet services, and spent bird haulers who
shipped birds to soup canneries. The system worked, the supermarkets and
food processors were always supplied with eggs. It was all over by 1970.
How did it end? the same way it always ends, somebody got greedy and
wanted to dominate the industry in the good honorable guise of progress
and efficiency. They destroyed the infrastructure and the system
collapsed then they moved on to conquer the broiler, cattle and hog
farms. It doesn;t have to be this way. Sadly we have an entire
generation of adults in America that never knew a time when corporations
did not dominate commerce. When little people work together they have
more power than you can imagine ... Bob
Sunny Meadow Farm
Bridgeton, NJ

<>

Thank you Bob! I think you beautifully described how an alternative
(really retro) system would work. Not only would it produce enough
food, but, because people back then were more conscientious and prided
themselves on their work, it could be much more wholesome than today's
food supply. This system would also create many more local jobs and
revitalize rural communities.

Mike Lanier
Agricultural Economic Development Agent
NC Cooperative Extension
Orange County Center
306-E Revere Road
P.O. Box 8181
Hillsborough, NC 27278

<>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] SANET-MG Digest - 22 May 2010 to 23 May 2010
(#2010-98)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 06:38:38 -0700
From: Mary-Howell & Klaas Martens <kandmhfarm@SPRINTMAIL.COM>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU


I know that the history of organic farming is important - that we are
all standing on many shoulders, but I do think it is important to
realize this -

I talk to many organic farmers in the course of each day - mostly
Northeast grain and dairy farmers - and I would estimate that not one in
100 have any idea of who these pioneers were, they don't feel they
'learned' any of what they are doing from Steiner or Rodale et al, nor
do they feel any 'warm fuzzies' about these forebearers - these are
names they simply don't know.

If we are going to have an accurate snapshot of organic farming today
and how we have gotten here, we have to look harder at the past 10-15
years and how our knowledge/philosphy on organic agronomics and
practices have changed (really drastically) over what the Old Pioneers
promoted.

It would be valuable to interview current organic farmers of all sizes
and types to learn what influences their farming information, style and
choices, but especially focus on farms larger than 200 acres, or with
more than 100 animals.

I think those who study the 'history of organic farming' will be surprised.

Mary-Howell Martens

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] SANET-MG Digest - 22 May 2010 to 23 May 2010
(#2010-98)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 00:11:34 -0700
From: Mary-Howell & Klaas Martens <kandmhfarm@SPRINTMAIL.COM>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU


Here are some examples of dramatic changes we're seeing on many
Northeast organic farms -

1. Improved utilization of perennial and annual forages that extends the
grazing season and nutritional value of the forage. This management has
mostly come out of the grazing/grass fed community and research, but the
organic livestock farmers have adopted it quickly. The advent of
electric fencing, especially temporary 'polywire' type fencing has
revolutionized pasture use and has made intensive grazing management
profitable. Plant breeding has given us a wider repertoire of pasture
species, allowing better use of land, season and improved animal health.
Plant breeding has also given us a wider range of disease resistant
crops that adapt to different conditions and markets.

2. Improved botanical and non-antibiotic medications has given organic
and non-chemical livestock farmers needed effective tools to manage
problems, which has increased production, herd health and herd size.

3. The study of soil health management, soil microbial populations, and
scientific cover cropping has done far more to improve soil quality and
to reduce erosion, and improve production, than organic no-till. Indeed,
we see very few large-scale organic farmers adopting the no-till/rolled
crop approach for more than a small trial, but we see many farmers
adopting a wider variety of cover crops and crop rotations, targeted to
certain times and purposes. While the soil health research at Cornell
and elsewhere is not specifically 'organic', it has profound implication
on how we improve organic farming techniques.

4. While perhaps modern weed control tools build on the basic principles
of the organic Pioneers, they would hardly recognize the complexity of
styles, angles, sizes and configurations, plus now the addition of GPS
for precision and ease of use. While it is tempting to claim that a
certain weed control tool 'descends' from the legacy of a certain
Pioneer, it is also important to realize that once, probably more than
one person invented the wheel, without any knowledge of each other.

5. Demographically, the most dramatic increase in organic
dairy/livestock farms in the Northeast over the past 10 years has been
in the Amish and Mennonite communities. A similarly large number of
non-Plain new organic farmers are Evangelical Christians. Today in New
York, it would be reasonable to estimate that well over half the organic
dairy farms are Amish/Mennonite/Evangelical - not half the number of
cows, but half the number of farms. Most of the Amish and Mennonites
have an 8th grade education and minimal scientific/philosophical
knowledge, but with some experience, most make good organic farmers,
possibly partly because they are accustomed to following strict rules,
and because they feel organic farming
fits comfortably with their religious beliefs. Their 25 cow dairies,
and Aurora-style 3000 cow dairies are rapidly becoming the two prominent
bubbles in organic dairy. This demographic group would be pretty
uncomfortable with a lot of Steiner's work, if they read it.

6. Among organic grain farmers, the most dramatic increase has been from
superior quality conventional farms that transition some of their acres
to organic, while still maintaining a split operation. Most are very
conscientious and follow organic requirements carefully, producing
excellent quality grain, in a very professional manner. They also
utilize large, modern equipment, are not reluctant to purchase allowed
off-farm inputs, they study successful organic farms and then actively
adapt to fit their farms, and they often see organic as just one more
niche market with specific requirements. If they read works of the
Pioneers, invariably it is William Albrecht they find the most useful,
although they are likely to prefer Albrecht pre-digested. This
demographic group would be pretty impatient with a lot of Steiner's
work, if they read it.

I guess my point is that, at least in New York, well over half of the
organic farmers don't remember organic farming pre-NOP. I'm not saying
this is either good or bad, it just is.

Actually, the people having the greatest impact on our farming practices
are generally our Cornell professors and research support specialists,
and other area farmers. Because of that, Cornell's weed scientist, Dr.
Chuck Mohler (and his trusty sidekick Brian Caldwell) are indeed our
choice for Organic Pioneers of the Year.

Mary-Howell Martens




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