permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 8/25/2010 1:06 AM, Nicholas Roberts, Permaculture.coop wrote:
> Toby, what I find so disturbing about your argument for teaching PDCs
> to anyone, is the hermetic nature of your argument. You're ideas might
> seem find from the suburbs of Oregon, but from where I sit, its the
> kind of technocratic managerialism that pervaded liberalism during the
> Vietnam war where agrarian reform and safe hamlets, winning the hearts
> and minds was the mission of the enlightened elites.

Good grief....
technocratic managerialism.....pervaded liberalism...agrarian 
reform....safe hamlets....enlightened elites
Who are those enlightened elites?
What are you trying to get across?

> Maybe you cant think of anything, but maybe you need to get out more.

What a thing to say...shortsighted at best.
Maybe you've been hanging out with the radical extremist liberal crowd 
too long and need to moderate your position with a good dose of reality.

If I were you I would go full tilt documenting what real permaculture 
practitioners/teachers/missionaries are doing around the world 
especially in third world countries, appropriate technology, natural 
farming, foodsheds, soil management. That is where you excel and that is 
what is the most valuable to the people you purport to help.

>   Overall, I
> > > don' t think a corporation or military can be made any worse for learning
> > > permaculture, and I think I personally am engaging in Earth and people care
> > > when I teach them, even if their own mission isn't. Institutions like
> > > corporations are way ahead of us in thinking up clever ways to screw up the
> > > world; we won't make them better at that. But by being exposed to the
> > > ecological and ethical basis of permaculture, individuals in the
> > > organization will be transformed, and perhaps even the organization itself.
> > > I've seen it happen. One at a time; that's how I do it. If that's outside
> > > your ethical framework; so be it.

Amazing to me that you would question the validity and appropriateness 
of what Toby says he is doing and why. I can't see that its up for 
debate in the first place. Running his valuable work in the ground
for the sake of argument merely reflects on the validity of your own work.