permaculture

[jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>]

If a person says that the ends justifies the means, or if they say that gmo's 
may be acceptable, then they don't seem like a permaculturist. The refrain of 
"I am a geneticist" and that Nature does it anyways is straight out of 
testimonyby Monsanto I've heard countless times at hearings and in reviewing 
eis filings.
Are even permaculture gurus subject to losing their focus?

> From: toby@patternliteracy.com
> Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 19:07:37 -0700
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
> 
> As a former geneticist, I want to point out that nature transfers genes 
> between species, between families, even between phyla and kingdoms. It was 
> viruses that taught geneticists how to do it; viruses move genes between 
> the most distantly related organisms with great frequency and ease, making 
> the genetically engineered tomato with a fish gene look like child's play. 
> Nature is far ahead of us in the breeding world, and is doing things we can 
> barely dream of.
> 
> It makes no more sense to condemn genetic engineering itself than it does 
> to condemn a hammer or a computer. It's a tool. A permaculturist doesn't 
> rule out a tool simply because of its origin; if we did we wouldn't use 
> hammers, computers, or anything else that's a product of an unsustainable 
> culture. The techniques of genetic modification are not evil; it's the 
> godawful stupid things they do with them that are the evil. If we can talk 
> about using technical solutions like hair mats and mycelium to clean up oil 
> spills (with all their pluses and minuses), then we ought to include GMO 
> microbes that eat oil in the toolkit. None of them is going to solve the 
> oil problem, but while we work on the technical level, we work on other 
> levels too.
> 
> My sense is that activism, even Jensen's violent kind, isn't going to bring 
> civilization down--and I like Derrick a lot, and I speak as an activist. 
> The elites are much better at violence than anyone else. I think oil will 
> just get too scarce, and the crash will solve a lot of those problems. I 
> just hope it happens soon enough.
> 
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
> 
> 
> 
> On May 4, 2010, at 4:50 PM, jamesdavid Sneed wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Perhaps you can share your research sources  on each statement about the 
> > microbes so each of us can pursue that. Also, even if an organism has NOT 
> > been genetically engineered as in splicing, a few "non-gmo" breeding 
> > techniques would never occur in Nature without humans forcing them to 
> > happen, and thus also bear dangerous potential.
> >> Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 19:59:18 -0700
> >> From: cory8570@yahoo.com
> >> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
> >> 
> >> Oil eating microbes die when the oil is gone. The oil, on the other 
> >> hand, sticks around in one form or other and keeps on killing. They are 
> >> now using toxic stuff that sinks it to the bottom of the ocean. I guess 
> >> out of sight, out of mind... The company I am most familiar with uses 
> >> only existing microbes, they are not GM at all. 
> >> 
> >> Cory
> >> 
> >> --- On Mon, 5/3/10, jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> From: jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle@hotmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
> >>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>> Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 2:13 PM
> >>> 
> >>> Aren't a lot of those oil-eating microbes genetically
> >>> modified? That would be cutting off our nose to spite our
> >>> face.
> >>> 
> >>>> Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:50:49 -0700
> >>>> From: cory8570@yahoo.com
> >>>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Oil spill - solutions?
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm checking with a friend of mine who creates microbe
> >>> formulas to see if he has one for this problem. Some
> >>> microbes do eat oil, just need to assess the entire process
> >>> and all waste products, consequences, etc. Tailored,
> >>> cultured microbes might be best for this job. Anybody know
> >>> of any other organizations that might be able to handle
> >>> that?  Application will definitely be something to
> >>> solve.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Cory 
> >>>> 
> 
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