permaculture

["Margaret L. Wilson" <booldawgs@frontiernet.net>]

Private property ummmm, hmmmm.  I have some strong opinions.  I have been a 
landlord and a tenant.  I visited a lot of communes in the 60s and 70s.  I 
recently visited a small planned community in California.   Wow, it was 
impressive.  LOL, they had a biodiesel tank for their numerous Mercedes.  No 
way could it feed 6-8 families.  Nice houses on 40? acres but not enough 
gardens, fruit, or livestock.

My farm/ranch is not common land, it is private property.  This property 
took the majority of our life savings to purchase.  Yes, I do use the 
possessive pronoun and will do so until the land is legally transferred to 
our only granddaughter.  It will be shared by an extended family as/when 
needed but it will be an earned privilege not a right or a "gimmee".   There 
will be no legally granted ownership.  I have  had to go to court to 
ascertain the water rights to this property that have existed since the 
1800s.  A few neighbors had been using (illegally) the water that belongs to 
this land for several years.  This is the West and without water you have 
nothing.  We have planted 500 evergreens, many fruit and nut trees, repaired 
the ponds and irrigation ditches, replaced fences, added heritage livestock, 
built swales,  cross fenced for controlled grazing, put in berries and 
perennial vegetables.  I know this 54 acres is capable of sustainably 
feeding (and probably supporting) a lot people.  It is going to take a lot 
more work to get it to that state. The former owner allowed relatives and 
renters to neglect and abuse this old ranch for 30 years.  It's not yet what 
I would call real farm.

My paternal ancestors pissed away a large farm that was given (by George 
Washington) as a reward for valor in the revolutionary war.  A quick buck to 
move to the city and have shiny objects was more valuable than 640 acres of 
fine Ohio farm land.

My paternal grandfather gave me his land (Colorado) 50 years ago when I was 
a 10 year old child.  I foolishly allowed relatives and their friends to use 
it while I followed my husband around the world for 40+ years.   They took a 
beautiful, pristine mountain ranch and used, abused, polluted, poisoned, 
trashed and thrashed it.  It has taken a $100,000 lawsuit to get legal 
possession and I still don't have physical possession.  The eviction and 
cleanup will cost me a fortune. It is not livable or even usable at this 
time.

FWIW,  I give needy families extra beef, lamb, eggs and vegetables.  I also 
allow use of garden space by several needy families.  On the other hand I 
keep a lock on the gate and people come at certain designated times.
Margaret
http://farfarawayfarm.blogspot.com/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Read" <steveread@free.fr>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America


> Hello,
>
> Amazing lots of possesssive pronouns being used on this particular thread, 
> what were those old ideals about land tenure etc? Renting, Hmmmm being 
> Landlords (or ladies), I obviously need to do some more self -development 
> because those are things I (re) act to. An ancestor of mine was killed in 
> a mining accident after he was, after living there for generations as a 
> Freemen, thrown off the common land by a Govt enclosure act which gave it 
> to a landowner, so he and family moved on and he did what was left to him, 
> mining, and it killed him. Up to then the Common land had been worked 
> sustainably, tended and cared for collectively and had provided a 
> livelihood for many many people.  Private property Hmmmm..........
>
> SteveR
>
>
> ======= At 2008-10-29, 21:25:09 you wrote: =======
>
> > I think there are many of us that have land that we will need to share in
> > the future (near and distant) with people with skills and work ethic.  I
> > have been working on my 54 acres for 6 years now and it is nowhere near a
> > finished product.  I have had several employees over the last few years.
> > None of them would be allowed to live here or be a renter.
> > Margaret
> > http://farfarawayfarm.blogspot.com/
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Nancy Frank" <oppty@mac.com>
> > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America
> >
> >
> > > As long as we are in the conversation.  I didn't set out to purchase
> > > land for a permaculture farm, but I am a single woman who was raised
> > > in the city until I was about 30 (now 52), and have 55 acres (30
> > > woods -- 25 open) in northwestern Wisconsin, with some sheep, llamas,
> > > chickens, etc., and am very interested in creating more opportunities
> > > to utilize more of the land for sustainability.  I have a room for
> > > rent in my 100 year-old farmhouse to a non-smoking woman who is
> > > interested in producing food from this land, making some sustainable
> > > changes, and living in a wonderful rural community.  The community is
> > > eco-friendly, and there are several small start-up sustainable farms
> > > around.  If anyone knows of someone interested in this opportunity,
> > > please have them contact me privately.  It could be a seasonal
> > > rental, or year-round.
> > >
> > > Nancy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:53 AM, KSantoyo wrote:
> > >
> > > > In response to Isabel's original post- not sure what the problem is?!
> > > > People buying up land and wanting to create a place where people can
> > > > come learn about growing and living together- ohmigosh- that's
> > > > horrible!
> > > >
> > > > So what if they don't have the skill sets yet...it sounds like they
> > > > know enough to seek help from people who know more than they
> > > > do...Isn't that what this whole process is about -education? Learning
> > > > so that one can become more capable and able to better contribute to
> > > > the health of the whole?
> > > >
> > > > What a resource these new landowners are offering to those who wish
> > > > they had a place to go get some hands-on experience, or simply
> > > > practice their passion and skills...
> > > >
> > > > As Trudie alludes to, imagine roving bands of skilled permaculturists-
> > > > permaculture gypsies!- moving from site to site, living for a while in
> > > > the community, and helping people get their systems properly set up-
> > > > seems like that would be a good thing...
> > > >
> > > > to the good green road,
> > > >
> > > > Kathryn Santoyo
> > > > earthflow.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Udan Farm
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:17 AM
> > > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > Subject: [permaculture] Trends in America
> > > >
> > > > Hi Everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I admit, I do not keep up with this list nearly as much as I would
> > > > like
> > > > to, but I'd like to start a discussion about a trend I see, and
> > > > perhaps
> > > > how to alter it, or harness it, or ???
> > > >
> > > > I live in a southern state, so we are fairly far behind in
> > > > Permaculture,
> > > > as in, classes being taught, and interest in general.
> > > > I am a new Permaculture teacher, trying to get the word out, and my
> > > > partner and I will be student teaching our first design course this
> > > > winter.
> > > >
> > > > What I have noticed here in our southern state is a trend of fairly
> > > > wealthy couples, or single middle aged women, who "decide" to start a
> > > > farm, eco-village, or other farm related business, with little prior
> > > > knowledge. They go buy the land with little realization of what to
> > > > look
> > > > for, realize that it's a lot of work, and then want someone to come
> > > > "assess" their land. Most of them want to host a class (mainly because
> > > > they are too busy to leave the farm) and hope that it will include
> > > > lots
> > > > of people planting trees for them. In other words, they want
> > > > someone to
> > > > come "DO" permaculture to their farm, and hope it won't cost much.
> > > > Generally they also hold down jobs in another town or they live part
> > > > time in another place. They had enough money to create the
> > > > beginning of
> > > > the dream but no clue how to sustain it or build it.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to come off sounding like a whiner here. But this is
> > > > happening over, and over and over here in my state. You can pretty
> > > > much
> > > > map them out, about 100 miles apart.
> > > > We are feeling very much pulled by every little wind as permaculture
> > > > teachers, so we are having to be very selective about what we do.
> > > >
> > > > What I was wondering-I don't mean to just crab about it- is are any
> > > > other Permaculture Teachers out there experiencing this, and what
> > > > do you
> > > > tell folks, and how could we get them all together? Mind you it's a 5
> > > > hour drive from one end of the state to another
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > > This is really, in my opinion, an indicator of our larger American
> > > > society in general. We have enough money to go off in our little
> > > > corner
> > > > and live, and we want others to "work for us", as we have come to
> > > > expect. (I don't think that, but I think American society in
> > > > general-or
> > > > at least upper and upper-middle class society does.)
> > > >
> > > > Granted the tide seems to have turned, and people may be more serious
> > > > and honest about wanting to live simply and sustainably...
> > > >
> > > > but I just wondered what my fellow Perm. folks out there are
> > > > experiencing, and how they are turning THE PROBLEM INTO THE SOLUTION.
> > > >
> > > > Peace,
> > > > Isabel
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> Best regards.
> Steve Read
> steveread@free.fr
> 2008-10-29
>
>
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