Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Trends in America

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Margaret L. Wilson" <booldawgs@frontiernet.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America
  • Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:37:37 -0700


Private property ummmm, hmmmm. I have some strong opinions. I have been a landlord and a tenant. I visited a lot of communes in the 60s and 70s. I recently visited a small planned community in California. Wow, it was impressive. LOL, they had a biodiesel tank for their numerous Mercedes. No way could it feed 6-8 families. Nice houses on 40? acres but not enough gardens, fruit, or livestock.

My farm/ranch is not common land, it is private property. This property took the majority of our life savings to purchase. Yes, I do use the possessive pronoun and will do so until the land is legally transferred to our only granddaughter. It will be shared by an extended family as/when needed but it will be an earned privilege not a right or a "gimmee". There will be no legally granted ownership. I have had to go to court to ascertain the water rights to this property that have existed since the 1800s. A few neighbors had been using (illegally) the water that belongs to this land for several years. This is the West and without water you have nothing. We have planted 500 evergreens, many fruit and nut trees, repaired the ponds and irrigation ditches, replaced fences, added heritage livestock, built swales, cross fenced for controlled grazing, put in berries and perennial vegetables. I know this 54 acres is capable of sustainably feeding (and probably supporting) a lot people. It is going to take a lot more work to get it to that state. The former owner allowed relatives and renters to neglect and abuse this old ranch for 30 years. It's not yet what I would call real farm.

My paternal ancestors pissed away a large farm that was given (by George Washington) as a reward for valor in the revolutionary war. A quick buck to move to the city and have shiny objects was more valuable than 640 acres of fine Ohio farm land.

My paternal grandfather gave me his land (Colorado) 50 years ago when I was a 10 year old child. I foolishly allowed relatives and their friends to use it while I followed my husband around the world for 40+ years. They took a beautiful, pristine mountain ranch and used, abused, polluted, poisoned, trashed and thrashed it. It has taken a $100,000 lawsuit to get legal possession and I still don't have physical possession. The eviction and cleanup will cost me a fortune. It is not livable or even usable at this time.

FWIW, I give needy families extra beef, lamb, eggs and vegetables. I also allow use of garden space by several needy families. On the other hand I keep a lock on the gate and people come at certain designated times.
Margaret
http://farfarawayfarm.blogspot.com/


----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Read" <steveread@free.fr>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America


Hello,

Amazing lots of possesssive pronouns being used on this particular thread, what were those old ideals about land tenure etc? Renting, Hmmmm being Landlords (or ladies), I obviously need to do some more self -development because those are things I (re) act to. An ancestor of mine was killed in a mining accident after he was, after living there for generations as a Freemen, thrown off the common land by a Govt enclosure act which gave it to a landowner, so he and family moved on and he did what was left to him, mining, and it killed him. Up to then the Common land had been worked sustainably, tended and cared for collectively and had provided a livelihood for many many people. Private property Hmmmm..........

SteveR


======= At 2008-10-29, 21:25:09 you wrote: =======

I think there are many of us that have land that we will need to share in
the future (near and distant) with people with skills and work ethic. I
have been working on my 54 acres for 6 years now and it is nowhere near a
finished product. I have had several employees over the last few years.
None of them would be allowed to live here or be a renter.
Margaret
http://farfarawayfarm.blogspot.com/

----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Frank" <oppty@mac.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trends in America


As long as we are in the conversation. I didn't set out to purchase
land for a permaculture farm, but I am a single woman who was raised
in the city until I was about 30 (now 52), and have 55 acres (30
woods -- 25 open) in northwestern Wisconsin, with some sheep, llamas,
chickens, etc., and am very interested in creating more opportunities
to utilize more of the land for sustainability. I have a room for
rent in my 100 year-old farmhouse to a non-smoking woman who is
interested in producing food from this land, making some sustainable
changes, and living in a wonderful rural community. The community is
eco-friendly, and there are several small start-up sustainable farms
around. If anyone knows of someone interested in this opportunity,
please have them contact me privately. It could be a seasonal
rental, or year-round.

Nancy



On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:53 AM, KSantoyo wrote:

In response to Isabel's original post- not sure what the problem is?!
People buying up land and wanting to create a place where people can
come learn about growing and living together- ohmigosh- that's
horrible!

So what if they don't have the skill sets yet...it sounds like they
know enough to seek help from people who know more than they
do...Isn't that what this whole process is about -education? Learning
so that one can become more capable and able to better contribute to
the health of the whole?

What a resource these new landowners are offering to those who wish
they had a place to go get some hands-on experience, or simply
practice their passion and skills...

As Trudie alludes to, imagine roving bands of skilled permaculturists-
permaculture gypsies!- moving from site to site, living for a while in
the community, and helping people get their systems properly set up-
seems like that would be a good thing...

to the good green road,

Kathryn Santoyo
earthflow.com


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Udan Farm
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:17 AM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] Trends in America

Hi Everyone,

I admit, I do not keep up with this list nearly as much as I would
like
to, but I'd like to start a discussion about a trend I see, and
perhaps
how to alter it, or harness it, or ???

I live in a southern state, so we are fairly far behind in
Permaculture,
as in, classes being taught, and interest in general.
I am a new Permaculture teacher, trying to get the word out, and my
partner and I will be student teaching our first design course this
winter.

What I have noticed here in our southern state is a trend of fairly
wealthy couples, or single middle aged women, who "decide" to start a
farm, eco-village, or other farm related business, with little prior
knowledge. They go buy the land with little realization of what to
look
for, realize that it's a lot of work, and then want someone to come
"assess" their land. Most of them want to host a class (mainly because
they are too busy to leave the farm) and hope that it will include
lots
of people planting trees for them. In other words, they want
someone to
come "DO" permaculture to their farm, and hope it won't cost much.
Generally they also hold down jobs in another town or they live part
time in another place. They had enough money to create the
beginning of
the dream but no clue how to sustain it or build it.

I don't want to come off sounding like a whiner here. But this is
happening over, and over and over here in my state. You can pretty
much
map them out, about 100 miles apart.
We are feeling very much pulled by every little wind as permaculture
teachers, so we are having to be very selective about what we do.

What I was wondering-I don't mean to just crab about it- is are any
other Permaculture Teachers out there experiencing this, and what
do you
tell folks, and how could we get them all together? Mind you it's a 5
hour drive from one end of the state to another


"
This is really, in my opinion, an indicator of our larger American
society in general. We have enough money to go off in our little
corner
and live, and we want others to "work for us", as we have come to
expect. (I don't think that, but I think American society in
general-or
at least upper and upper-middle class society does.)

Granted the tide seems to have turned, and people may be more serious
and honest about wanting to live simply and sustainably...

but I just wondered what my fellow Perm. folks out there are
experiencing, and how they are turning THE PROBLEM INTO THE SOLUTION.

Peace,
Isabel
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring



_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring



_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring




= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


Best regards.
Steve Read
steveread@free.fr
2008-10-29


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
Google command to search archives:
site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring







Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page