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  • From: "Primal Parent" <primalparent@hotmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource Pres
  • Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:26:44 +0000

i promised to avoid Political arguments from now on, but i just had to jump in here and say that i feel there were some cheap shots taken at graham (especially in attempting to apply the 'Authoritarian' label on him). he has done some amazing work and inspired tons of individuals and i dont think that should be dismissed with a wave of the hand and the word 'privileged' (as if 99% of us on here aren't).

to paraphrase wendell berry, "well, if white men have the most influence on the world, then i guess it's good that i am a white man...'cause now i can influence people to start living in balance. and besides, if it's not a good thing...well it's not like i had any choice in the matter"

you should check out what spiralseed is doing.





From: Tommy Tolson <healinghawk@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency!
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:01:12 -0500

Graham wrote:
> lets keep the
> internatrional permaculture forum focussed on positive solutions and
> ways forward to abundant living in post energy descent futures and what
> we can do thats positive and practical now...
>
> Cheers Graham www.spiralseed.co.uk
>
This is a profoundly political statement favoring an arbitrarily
privileged viewpoint, as far as I can tell. It comes from someone of
remarkable stature,
an authority figure, if you will. This is a statement of "how it should
be," asking for no support, a simple, authoritarian declaration, the
forte of white men.
How, pray tell, does a positive solution come about without a
decision-making process? Yes, we are in energy descent, but saying so
is another political statement.
Who decides what is "positive and practical now" for the members of this
listserv? How is consensus gathered in the Permaculture community in
general and on this
listserv in particular? Who rules this listserv? Who may speak
freely? Anyone? No one?

I am not a farmer and I am not white in more than skin color. I look
white until you look close but I'm not white. I have a Permaculture
design certificate and I do
Permaculture designs when they show up to be done. Even when I live on
the land, I am not a farmer. Am I subject to farmer rules on this
listserv? Like it or leave it?
Is that the rule here, too?

I do not own a positive view of the future. Two out of three people now
living are not ecologically supported in a world without cheap oil. It
is going to get very ugly very
quickly, and insisting upon a positive viewpoint is not going to change
that. The likelihood is that two thirds of the humans now living will
die off within the next fifty years. I can not
begin to make that appear positive. Global warming is a one hundred
year old issue. The warning was issued one hundred years ago and we
haven't done anything about it yet.
Peak Oil was predicted in something like 1957 and few outside the oil
business (I'm third generation oilfield) still, in 2007, even know what
Peak Oil means.
Leonard Cohen sang, "I have seen your future and man, it's murder."
That's consistent with what I know.

Thinking we can build out our designs and make them work and live out
our lives in relative peace while the rest of the world falls apart does
not strike me as realistic at all, and
if I have to adopt an attitude based on the illusion that it is
realistic in order to be on a Permaculture listserv, I find that
prospect bizarre as hell.

Are there any adults in charge here? Or has Permaculture morphed into a
New Age quasi-theology? We can think the future away? Oscar Wilde, I
think, said "If you tell them
the truth, make them laugh or they'll kill you." I have neither the
desire nor the inclination to make you laugh.

Tommy Tolson
Austin, TX
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