permaculture

["Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>]

Well, I remain dubious about this list as a place 
for theological discussion, but perhaps we could 
frame the discussion in terms of the permaculture 
ethic of care for people and the permaculture 
principle of respect for diversity.

Should we judge all Muslims by the actions, 
rhetoric, and beliefs of Osama bin Laden and his 
Al Queda organization?

Should we judge all white people by the actions, 
rhetoric, and beliefs of David Duke and the Ku 
Klux Klan?

Should we judge all Buddhists by the actions of 
the Japanese army during World War II?

Should we judge all Africans by the actions of Idi 
Amin or those who carried out the Rwandan 
genocide?

I think most of us would say "no".  Yet, when the 
subject of Christianity comes up, people are quick 
to judge all Christians by the actions and beliefs 
of __________ (fill in the blank with your 
favorite Christian boogerman), such as you and 
others have in your comments about various unnamed 
Christian leaders.

The next point I would make is that if someone 
wants to attack Christianity, that's fine, but I 
think they should first do their homework to make 
sure that their point is valid and not a straw man 
argument invented for the purpose of winning 
points.  A case at hand is the common allegation 
that the Abrahamic religions teach that the 
material world is evil, and all that matters is 
the spiritual world to come.  This is simply not 
true.  The big argument in ancient times between 
early Catholicism and the Gnostics turned on this 
very point, with the Gnostics taking the position 
that the material world was evil and thus all that 
mattered was the spiritual world.  The Christian 
point of view was and is that the world was 
created by God, who looked at Creation and said, 
"This is good work."

The third point I would make is that the Abrahamic 
religions are ancient and diverse and should not 
be tarred with one brush as if there was no 
difference between a televangelist and someone 
like Dorothy Day or Mother Teresa.

Finally, I have no doubt that Christians, Jews, 
and Muslims have caused evil in this world, just 
as Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, and 
animists have all done some very terrible things. 
Generally in discussions like this, it's fun to 
focus on the evil boogermen doing all these nasty 
things, and easy to ignore all those non-boogermen 
who are doing works of justice, peace, beauty, and 
wisdom.  In 2006 our little Catholic Worker house 
here in Oklahoma City delivered more than 150,000 
pounds of food to people in need who didn't have 
transportation to get to a food bank.  My friends 
at the Holy Family Catholic Worker house in Kansas 
City feed 200-300 people every day in an old house 
in a poor neighborhood.

So, at minimum, people could try to understand 
that the situation is not as simplistic as some 
here would have us believe.

Bob Waldrop, founder
Oscar Romero Catholic Worker House, 
www.justpeace.org
see also www.catholicworker.org



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
To: "permaculture" 
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The main reason why 
Newagers dominatepermaculture.


> Robert Waldrop wrote:
>
> > I'm not going to get into a detailed religious
> > debate here, except to say that while you hear
> > this kind of loose talk a lot, this paragraph
> > quoted below is a very shallow and incomplete
> > reading of the theology of the Abrahamic
> > religions.
>
> I don't think Scott claims to be a Biblical 
> scholar
> or intended his comments to be concise and 
> reflect any
> accurate interpretation of Christian scripture. 
> It was a general statement,
> loose, as you say, easy to read between the 
> lines and derive a general meaning
> from what he said. Maybe you should fill us in 
> on what we are missing.
> After witnessing the gyrations and antics of 
> many present day Christian leaders
> I feel that he is right on the money, as are 
> those leaders, onto the $oney, that is.
>
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >
> > >    The core of Judeo/Christian belief is that
> > > we got kicked out of the Garden, and the Earth
> > > is a lesser world for us to dominate and use as
> > > we see fit, until we die and go to heaven or
> > > Armagedon comes. In any case the spititual
> > > "Prize" they are after isn't here on earth.
>
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