permaculture

[chauncey williams <chaunceyfree@yahoo.com>]

I would love to get some more info on your camoflauge garden techniques.

Liz Soutendijk <liz@soutendijk.com> wrote:  Hi, I live in East Tx (Quitman 
Tx) and recently gave a presentation to
a garden club at Holly Lake in Hawkins, TX on Adding Natives to your
Landscape - (focusing on plants and techniques of Camouflage Gardening
for a deer resistant garden).  I can send you my handouts - many of
these plants are native to the south and possibly the north east
forest.  And the techniques can be used along with fencing if you
like.

Elizabeth (Liz) Soutendijk

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of chauncey
williams
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 12:36 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] deer fencing - What Constitutes
GoodPermaculture Practice?

How about learning the pattern lifestyle of deer.  If we were to
understand how deer operate a little better, maybe we can find a very
natural way to deter them from our garden.  There are plants that
deter deer as well as plants that could attract deer to different
areas.  There is a good book on the subject called "Deer proofing
your yard & Garden" by rhonda massingham hart.
  
  I encourage everyone to think beyond simple fences and beyond to a
more  natural awareness to the way the rest of life that we share this
earth  with tend to live.

"Lawrence F. London, Jr."  wrote:  Rain Tenaqiya
wrote:

>  First of all, Home Depot is an evil box store that drains money out
of  the local community- not a very good permaculture practice to shop
there.

There was a front page article in a local newspaper entitled "Boxed
Out, local retailers feeling thr crunch from big box 
outlets". IOW, there went the last locally-owned hardware store in our
town or there went the last farm supply store in 
the county.

A new topic....

On the other hand, as an independent small market farmer (6 acres, 4
under cultivation) and small manufacturer of hand 
garden tools (using 50% recycled steel: used saw blades and ag
implements) I can say that there has never before been as 
much opportunity to make a good living doing what I do as there is
now. This is partly due to a new trend toward 
purchasing "locally grown" and "sustainably grown" agricultural
products, especially produce and especially by 
restaurants. More sustainable growers using natural methods means
greater demand for good hand tools. Business is good 
now and I expect it to get better. I am in the land of big boxes and
rapidly increasing population, decreasing farmland 
and increasing numbers of small farmers selling locally, many at an
increasing number of farmers markets.

Are there any other market farmers or gardeners in this list?

Now then, if we're going to talk about what constitutes GOOD
PERMACULTURE PRACTICE, maybe we could each contribute 
suggestions as to its meaning. For starters I would like to see
respect for and preservation of world agricultural and, 
of late, permaculture traeaures. Traditional, indigenous beliefs,
knowledgebases, methods, skills and practices that 
relate to agriculture. That includes everything from seed and plant
preservation (including forests and prairies) to 
toolmaking, soil preparation and food preparation and preservation.


 >   Deer vary tremendously in their behavior around fencing.
Sometimes two little four foot barriers about 4 ft apart 
will work, sometimes a 6 ft fence, sometimes an 8ft fence.  The
topography and vegetation also affects how effective a 
fence is.  If the deer are on the downhill side of a fence on a slope,
it is harder for them to jump it.  Tree branches 
along the fenceline and above the fence also reinforce the barrier.
Deer don't seem to care about getting shocked 
unless the power is ridiculously high.  You end up having to build a
full-on metal fence anyway.
 >
 >   If you have money to buy lots of fence posts and wire fencing
like what Larry described, it could be the best 
long-term solution, although in the West, 6ft fencing usually works by
itself if you stretch another wire a foot above 
it.  Sometimes another wire a foot above that is necessary.  The
relatively new plastic deer fencing is very effective 
and requires fewer posts.  It lasts a long time, especially in the
shade, is invisible, and can be recycled.  It 
generally needs to be pinned to the ground every so often.  I would
say this is superior to metal fencing where you have 
lots of trees around already.  I have used it on deer freeways in
suburbia and have had no problems.
 >
 >   My friend has problems with rabbits, wild pigs, and bobcats, so
she's using three feet 2 in guage chicken wire on 
the bottom portion of the fence, with one foot of it laying on the
outer portion of the ground.  It hangs from a wire 
stretched along posts put in about 15 ft or more apart.  Then she
stretches another wire at 7 or 8 ft and hangs 6 ft or 
higher plastic mesh deer fencing (it looks like bird netting and is
cheaper than the stuff mentioned above).  This is a 
very effective and cheap method.  I am thinking about doing something
similar, only I plan to get 8 ft high plastic deer 
mesh and cut it in half, resulting in a 6ft high fence that I can
string one or two wires above to increase the 
effective height.  My place is on a plateau so that the deer are below
the fence and have to jump higher to clear it.
 >
 >   I don't like having noisy, hungry, and stinky dogs around, but if
you like dogs and can train one well, it can keep 
all sorts of creatures away, if that is what you want.  And if you
feed it foods from the site, it could be a much more 
sustainable option than an energy-intensive fence.
 >
 >   Good luck,
 >
 >   Rain

First class advice and very interesting, Rain.

LL

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