permaculture

["Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>]

HI Liz,

I am very interested in your handouts and inforamiton on Camoflauge
Gardening.  Especially ideas for natural deer resitance plants.  I live in
Bastrop County, more central than not, but we have a sandy soil and some
other similarities to East Texas.

Marjory


----- Original Message -----
From: "Liz Soutendijk" <liz@soutendijk.com>
To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] deer fencing - What Constitutes
GoodPermaculturePractice?


> Hi, I live in East Tx (Quitman Tx) and recently gave a presentation to
> a garden club at Holly Lake in Hawkins, TX on Adding Natives to your
> Landscape - (focusing on plants and techniques of Camouflage Gardening
> for a deer resistant garden).  I can send you my handouts - many of
> these plants are native to the south and possibly the north east
> forest.  And the techniques can be used along with fencing if you
> like.
>
> Elizabeth (Liz) Soutendijk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of chauncey
> williams
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 12:36 PM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] deer fencing - What Constitutes
> GoodPermaculture Practice?
>
> How about learning the pattern lifestyle of deer.  If we were to
> understand how deer operate a little better, maybe we can find a very
> natural way to deter them from our garden.  There are plants that
> deter deer as well as plants that could attract deer to different
> areas.  There is a good book on the subject called "Deer proofing
> your yard & Garden" by rhonda massingham hart.
>
>   I encourage everyone to think beyond simple fences and beyond to a
> more  natural awareness to the way the rest of life that we share this
> earth  with tend to live.
>
> "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net> wrote:  Rain Tenaqiya
> wrote:
>
> >  First of all, Home Depot is an evil box store that drains money out
> of  the local community- not a very good permaculture practice to shop
> there.
>
> There was a front page article in a local newspaper entitled "Boxed
> Out, local retailers feeling thr crunch from big box
> outlets". IOW, there went the last locally-owned hardware store in our
> town or there went the last farm supply store in
> the county.
>
> A new topic....
>
> On the other hand, as an independent small market farmer (6 acres, 4
> under cultivation) and small manufacturer of hand
> garden tools (using 50% recycled steel: used saw blades and ag
> implements) I can say that there has never before been as
> much opportunity to make a good living doing what I do as there is
> now. This is partly due to a new trend toward
> purchasing "locally grown" and "sustainably grown" agricultural
> products, especially produce and especially by
> restaurants. More sustainable growers using natural methods means
> greater demand for good hand tools. Business is good
> now and I expect it to get better. I am in the land of big boxes and
> rapidly increasing population, decreasing farmland
> and increasing numbers of small farmers selling locally, many at an
> increasing number of farmers markets.
>
> Are there any other market farmers or gardeners in this list?
>
> Now then, if we're going to talk about what constitutes GOOD
> PERMACULTURE PRACTICE, maybe we could each contribute
> suggestions as to its meaning. For starters I would like to see
> respect for and preservation of world agricultural and,
> of late, permaculture traeaures. Traditional, indigenous beliefs,
> knowledgebases, methods, skills and practices that
> relate to agriculture. That includes everything from seed and plant
> preservation (including forests and prairies) to
> toolmaking, soil preparation and food preparation and preservation.
>
>
>  >   Deer vary tremendously in their behavior around fencing.
> Sometimes two little four foot barriers about 4 ft apart
> will work, sometimes a 6 ft fence, sometimes an 8ft fence.  The
> topography and vegetation also affects how effective a
> fence is.  If the deer are on the downhill side of a fence on a slope,
> it is harder for them to jump it.  Tree branches
> along the fenceline and above the fence also reinforce the barrier.
> Deer don't seem to care about getting shocked
> unless the power is ridiculously high.  You end up having to build a
> full-on metal fence anyway.
>  >
>  >   If you have money to buy lots of fence posts and wire fencing
> like what Larry described, it could be the best
> long-term solution, although in the West, 6ft fencing usually works by
> itself if you stretch another wire a foot above
> it.  Sometimes another wire a foot above that is necessary.  The
> relatively new plastic deer fencing is very effective
> and requires fewer posts.  It lasts a long time, especially in the
> shade, is invisible, and can be recycled.  It
> generally needs to be pinned to the ground every so often.  I would
> say this is superior to metal fencing where you have
> lots of trees around already.  I have used it on deer freeways in
> suburbia and have had no problems.
>  >
>  >   My friend has problems with rabbits, wild pigs, and bobcats, so
> she's using three feet 2 in guage chicken wire on
> the bottom portion of the fence, with one foot of it laying on the
> outer portion of the ground.  It hangs from a wire
> stretched along posts put in about 15 ft or more apart.  Then she
> stretches another wire at 7 or 8 ft and hangs 6 ft or
> higher plastic mesh deer fencing (it looks like bird netting and is
> cheaper than the stuff mentioned above).  This is a
> very effective and cheap method.  I am thinking about doing something
> similar, only I plan to get 8 ft high plastic deer
> mesh and cut it in half, resulting in a 6ft high fence that I can
> string one or two wires above to increase the
> effective height.  My place is on a plateau so that the deer are below
> the fence and have to jump higher to clear it.
>  >
>  >   I don't like having noisy, hungry, and stinky dogs around, but if
> you like dogs and can train one well, it can keep
> all sorts of creatures away, if that is what you want.  And if you
> feed it foods from the site, it could be a much more
> sustainable option than an energy-intensive fence.
>  >
>  >   Good luck,
>  >
>  >   Rain
>
> First class advice and very interesting, Rain.
>
> LL
>
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