permaculture

[chauncey williams <chaunceyfree@yahoo.com>]

How about learning the pattern lifestyle of deer.  If we were to  understand 
how deer operate a little better, maybe we can find a very  natural way to 
deter them from our garden.  There are plants that  deter deer as well as 
plants that could attract deer to different  areas.  There is a good book on 
the subject called "Deer proofing  your yard & Garden" by rhonda massingham 
hart.
  
  I encourage everyone to think beyond simple fences and beyond to a more  
natural awareness to the way the rest of life that we share this earth  with 
tend to live.

"Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net> wrote:  Rain Tenaqiya wrote:

>  First of all, Home Depot is an evil box store that drains money out of  
> the local community- not a very good permaculture practice to shop  there.

There was a front page article in a local newspaper entitled "Boxed Out, 
local retailers feeling thr crunch from big box 
outlets". IOW, there went the last locally-owned hardware store in our town 
or there went the last farm supply store in 
the county.

A new topic....

On the other hand, as an independent small market farmer (6 acres, 4 under 
cultivation) and small manufacturer of hand 
garden tools (using 50% recycled steel: used saw blades and ag implements) I 
can say that there has never before been as 
much opportunity to make a good living doing what I do as there is now. This 
is partly due to a new trend toward 
purchasing "locally grown" and "sustainably grown" agricultural products, 
especially produce and especially by 
restaurants. More sustainable growers using natural methods means greater 
demand for good hand tools. Business is good 
now and I expect it to get better. I am in the land of big boxes and rapidly 
increasing population, decreasing farmland 
and increasing numbers of small farmers selling locally, many at an 
increasing number of farmers markets.

Are there any other market farmers or gardeners in this list?

Now then, if we're going to talk about what constitutes GOOD PERMACULTURE 
PRACTICE, maybe we could each contribute 
suggestions as to its meaning. For starters I would like to see respect for 
and preservation of world agricultural and, 
of late, permaculture traeaures. Traditional, indigenous beliefs, 
knowledgebases, methods, skills and practices that 
relate to agriculture. That includes everything from seed and plant 
preservation (including forests and prairies) to 
toolmaking, soil preparation and food preparation and preservation.


 >   Deer vary tremendously in their behavior around fencing.  Sometimes two 
 > little four foot barriers about 4 ft apart 
will work, sometimes a 6 ft fence, sometimes an 8ft fence.  The topography 
and vegetation also affects how effective a 
fence is.  If the deer are on the downhill side of a fence on a slope, it is 
harder for them to jump it.  Tree branches 
along the fenceline and above the fence also reinforce the barrier.  Deer 
don't seem to care about getting shocked 
unless the power is ridiculously high.  You end up having to build a full-on 
metal fence anyway.
 >
 >   If you have money to buy lots of fence posts and wire fencing like what 
 > Larry described, it could be the best 
long-term solution, although in the West, 6ft fencing usually works by itself 
if you stretch another wire a foot above 
it.  Sometimes another wire a foot above that is necessary.  The relatively 
new plastic deer fencing is very effective 
and requires fewer posts.  It lasts a long time, especially in the shade, is 
invisible, and can be recycled.  It 
generally needs to be pinned to the ground every so often.  I would say this 
is superior to metal fencing where you have 
lots of trees around already.  I have used it on deer freeways in suburbia 
and have had no problems.
 >
 >   My friend has problems with rabbits, wild pigs, and bobcats, so she's 
 > using three feet 2 in guage chicken wire on 
the bottom portion of the fence, with one foot of it laying on the outer 
portion of the ground.  It hangs from a wire 
stretched along posts put in about 15 ft or more apart.  Then she stretches 
another wire at 7 or 8 ft and hangs 6 ft or 
higher plastic mesh deer fencing (it looks like bird netting and is cheaper 
than the stuff mentioned above).  This is a 
very effective and cheap method.  I am thinking about doing something 
similar, only I plan to get 8 ft high plastic deer 
mesh and cut it in half, resulting in a 6ft high fence that I can string one 
or two wires above to increase the 
effective height.  My place is on a plateau so that the deer are below the 
fence and have to jump higher to clear it.
 >
 >   I don't like having noisy, hungry, and stinky dogs around, but if you 
 > like dogs and can train one well, it can keep 
all sorts of creatures away, if that is what you want.  And if you feed it 
foods from the site, it could be a much more 
sustainable option than an energy-intensive fence.
 >
 >   Good luck,
 >
 >   Rain

First class advice and very interesting, Rain.

LL

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