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  • From: Graham <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil
  • Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:32:24 +0100

"Start at the end of your nose..."

nuff said...

d pfalzer wrote:

I think the basis for the debate on whether it is
Better to do permaculture in urban/suburban or rural
areas needs to be an awareness that most raw materials
Originate in rural areas, but the culture all of us
live in Acts to Concentrate materials in Urban areas. Do we take advantage of what our destructive culture
will do for us and live in an urban setting? Or do we
live in a rural setting and invest more of the energy
ourselves to bring together the items we need?
I think that it is not at all obvious that either
choice is uniformly "better" for everyone. Both
choices deserve to be valued, IMO.

--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


what people have to come to terms with is their
whole way of life is wrong, and they have to make
radical and fundemental changes in their
relationships, [family, work colegues, comunity,
culture, religion, politics and the earth], and it
is that simple, but just like meditation it is so
simple and yet so god damn hard,
love and freedom are at the begining [pass that on
to george bush, he might figure that you can not
fight for freedom, it is all ready thier]

Bart Anderson <bart@cwo.com> wrote:
No offense meant, Kaia. Gardening is my favorite
part of permaculture and
to me is a good symbol for the entire permaculture
worldview, but I
understand your point.

I think you speak for many in permaculture when you
say:


If you apply the principles on site and in

community now, peak oil won't

make much difference to those who are already

getting a yield.

However, I reluctantly find myelf in disagreement.
There are certain
periods of history, such as the last 50 years, in
which one can ignore the
larger political and economic trends. This was a
period of relative peace,
stability and prosperity for many countries. In
contrast the 1930s and
1940s, the time of the Great Depression and WW2,
were a period when most
people became caught up in world events. I'm afraid
that we are now
entering a similar period of turbulence.

A polarization between rich and poor, wars over
resources, a clampdown on
political dissent. These are some of the political
and economic signs of
the transition from cheap energy to expensive
energy.

My nephew watched lots of television and found few
opportunities after high
school, so he joined the Army and is now in Iraq.
Some members of my family
have hit it rich and are making large salaries,
while others have fallen
into the underclass. I don't think this is an
unusual pattern.

My point is that the larger world will increasingly
impinge upon the
personal and the local. The challenge is to come to
terms with these
changes in an intelligent and productive way.

My best, Bart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaia Bronte" To: "permaculture"
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil



Bart, I did not suggest concentrating on

gardening. That's putting words
in

my mouth.

I suggested applying the principles and ethics of

permaculture here and
now,

based on current reality, not uncertain future

possibilities. Permaculture

is not gardening. It is a system that encompasses

every aspect of life,

work, community.

If you apply the principles on site and in

community now, peak oil won't

make much difference to those who are already

getting a yield. Peak oil is
a

noisy, faddish reason to concentrate on

permaculture that is outweighed by

the many other reasons to apply the principles to

design. Permaculture is

equally significant with or without a peak oil

crisis.

/ l.s. / Kaia Bronte

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On

Behalf Of Bart

Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:50 PM
To: Permaculture List
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil





I wish it were possible, Kaia, to concentrate

on gardening and "take no

thought for tomorrow."



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