permaculture

["souscayrous" <souscayrous@tiscali.fr>]

Hello everyone, why is this hand hidden? There is nothing hidden about the
fertility of earth except the human practices that reduce fertility; it is
only when we regard the infertile world we have made that we begin to
question whether the earth can provide. The earth can support not only the
current human population but current non-human life too, providing we allow
it to provide.

We might also wonder at the use of the term 'surplus', to whom is this
'surplus' surplus? It has been written that even the loss of a single straw
can allow an agriculture to go awry.

We have created myriad worlds with which to disguise earth; God, gods,
money, science, Progress, metaphysics, even words. We are permaculturalists
or respond to Permaculture because we recognise the problems that we have
created, what we have still to realise is that no new knowledge or no new
'hidden hand' is going to save the earth for us. What are we going to learn
from new moon shots? What are we going to learn from bioengineering? A few
of us might very well learn to extend our lives beyond 100 years (while the
average age of mortality continues to fall), but what is it exactly we need
this extended life for?

We are the species that invented knowing and our knowledge allows us to
believe the universe is centred upon us. But there have been ages without
humanity and there will be ages again without us, how then will our vaunted
knowledge look?

Jamie
Souscayrous






-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Jara
Sent: mercredi 21 septembre 2005 13:02
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] The Hidden Hand

Dear Gregory,

  I agree that this thread is fascinating. I believe living without money is
doable and know people who do indeed live without money. There is no
sacrifice in how they live either. They are most comfortable. So I disagree
that all those that have tried it have failed. I believe the buck stops
(excuse the pun) with each and every one of us individually. We can reduce
our levels of consumption. We can prosume, especially us permaculturalists.
If we also just give away our surplus freely to those around us that need it
then amazingly there is a hidden hand (a very different one from the one
Adam Smith talked about) or an organizing principle which provides us with
the needs that we can not provide for ourselves.

Yours,

Andrew.

> From: Gregory Konger <gjkonger@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Educating about money

> I found this thread very interesting.  As for my personal feelings, I
> would love not having money.  If I didn't have money, I wouldn't need to
> remember to take it with me everywhere I go, and I wouldn't have to worry
> about anyone stealing it.  It would be nice if I was stranded somewhere
> without money that there would be a place where I could get shelter and
> food without walking several miles.  I find money to be sorry excuse for
> people not to be kind to one another.  I would love a system in which we
> shared everything in common so that we can reduce the amount of pollution
> we create by the way we personally stockpile worldly possessions. Of
> course getting to that point is the hard part since everyone who had tried
> has failed, but I wouldn't say it is impossible.
>
> Greg K.

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