permaculture

["GlobalCirclenet" <webmaster@globalcircle.net>]

Got to talk with Wendell Berry twice in Santa Fe, NM, great writer, great
farmer. Taught college English.
You're probably reading from
http://www.oriononline.org/pages/om/archive_om/Berry/Local_Economy.html

You in AB or SK? In that huge river valley in the magazines?

paul@largocreekfarms.com

   Man, despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many
accomplishments, owes the fact of his existence to a six-inch layer of
topsoil – and the fact that it rains. -Anonymous
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 9/17/2004 at 9:44 PM Paul Park wrote:

>I'm in south western Canada, just north of the Idaho panhandle.  We have
>about 140 frost free days here.  The land I am on has been cleared for
>about
>80 years,  before that it was cedar, fir, larch forest.  We are at about
>2000' and by Canadian standards live in a mild climate.  It does get down
>to
>20 below most winters but the cold and snow don't last too long.
>
>We chose this valley partly because of the extra growing options - fruit,
>nuts....  Before moving we lived out on the prairie on the east slopes of
>the Rockies, beautiful country but dry with a short growing season and
cold
>winters.  I just started reading Wendell Berry's thoughts about putting
>down
>roots and building community and a life right where you are.  We plan to
do
>that here.
>
>I'll go through my favorites and forward useful links you don't have on
>your
>site.  I had a quick look and see some of my favorites as well as lots I
>haven't seen.  Looks like I've got some winter reading coming up.
>
>Paul
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "GlobalCirclenet" <webmaster@globalcircle.net>
>To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] PCD course prices
>
>
>>
>> You're in the northeast I take it?  So encouraging to hear details of
>> someone's current journey toward sustainable living. I'm also encouraged
>to
>> hear of a workshop of that nature. I too picked up on many of those
>> practicing authors long before I had any chance to start pulling things
>> together on my own place. Know of Quinn but haven't read him. What I
have
>> learned is you can't just follow someone's book or imitate someone else
>in
>> a different situation, different soil, different climate.  It's
eclectic;
>> we draw on anything and everything that we can use to get where we want
>to
>> be. I've had to adapt to the high desert of western NM, under 10"
precip,
>> wide diurnal swings, 3 month growing season where nobody farms and land
>is
>> unsuited to anything but cattle and elk. And at 7,000 elev. There's
>almost
>
>> nothing out there to research on our unique growing conditions. For me,
>> there is no single source of good advice and techniques. BD, organic,
>> permaculture - We have to use what works here within the limits of the
>> devas and natural growing.  Try my site at http://herbfarmer.net/#HERBAL
>> esp http://herbfarmer.net/herbgrowing.htm  and let me know if you find
>> something helpful. I'm always adding and revising, so any good stuff we
>> don't have please send along, privately if you like.
>>
>> paul@largocreekfarms.com
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 9/17/2004 at 7:42 PM Paul Park wrote:
>>
>> >>I find it very odd that these workshop people don't stress learning
>> >permaculture by actually practicing it. PDCs, books, study groups,
>> mentors,
>> >internships, but forgetting learning by doing, by working with the
>garden
>> >and the animals. You see, actually getting out and doing it just
doesn't
>> >come to mind, does it. <
>> >
>> >On the course I went on, it was abundantly clear that working the land
>and
>> >observation over time was key.
>> >
>> > >I suspect those who are sooo impressed by workshops
>> >have never been introduced to the work of Elliot Coleman, the Nearings,
>> >Ruth Stout, Joel Sallatin, Fukuoka, the Rodales, Jeavons, Steiner, and
>> >many, many others. <
>> >
>> >I'm not sure if you're including me in this group, but I was familiar
>with
>> >all of these authors and many many others before going on the design
>> >course.
>> >During the course, we discussed Fukuoka many times, we visited a farm
>> >intensively grazing poultry a la Sallatin, we visited homesteaders who
>> >built
>> >their own stone home, using forms like the Nearings, we discussed
>> >Biodynamics, we double dug some beds, we sheet mulched, we discussed
the
>> >work of Emilia Hazelip, a personal friend of the instructor...  One or
>> more
>> >of the students in the group had experience with all of these
>> >writers/teachers and was able to add insight and personal experience to
>> the
>> >teaching.
>> >
>> >>Permaculture as envisioned by Mollison and Holmgren is a complete
>system.
>> >It is an ecological system to LIVE IN, to nourish and be nourished by
>it.
>> >It is not meant for the "supermarket shelf" approach, like I'll try
some
>> of
>> >this and a little of that. If workshops don't even intend for
>participants
>> >to set up and live in complete systems, then they are simply untrue to
>the
>> >core permaculture vision. I ask those questions for a reason. I'm NOT
>> >arguing that every workshop has to turn out 100% practicing
>> >permaculturalists. I AM saying that if almost nobody comes out
>practicing
>> >real permaculture, then it's frankly nothing but talk. Literally. All
>this
>> >"ooooh it changed my life", when it changed absolutely nothing, is
>really
>> >lame.<
>> >
>> > Not to be trite, but Rome wasn't built in a day.  When I took the
>course
>> a
>> >little over a year ago, I was living in a big city, with a tiny yard,
no
>> >vegetable garden and one lovely crab apple tree.  Today, I live on a
>small
>> >farm, I have a beautiful no-till vegetable and flower garden, steps
from
>> my
>> >kitchen door, my first pullets are debugging the garden and feasting on
>> the
>> >fallen fruit around the trees; they should start laying in a few weeks.
>> >Once a week, we eat a chicken, we raised in a Sallatin style pen.
We're
>> >drying cherries and prunes and waiting for the pears to ripen. My wife
>is
>> >studying with a local herbalist, learning to use locally-grown plants
to
>> >keep us all healthy and happy.  Physically, my life has
>changed.....where
>> I
>> >live....where I get the majority of my food....how I spend my
>recreational
>> >time......  My life has changed in other ways too.  While on the
course,
>I
>> >was reading a couple of books by Daniel Quinn, many others on the
course
>> >had
>> >read him too and we spent evenings sharing our thoughts and feelings on
>> >that.  I'm much more conscious of how my choices affect the earth,
>others
>> >around me, my children....
>> >
>> >The Permaculture Design Course didn't create all this change.  I was on
>> the
>> >journey long before I took the course.  The course was a nice stop
along
>> >the
>> >road, and  for me, it was well worth the small cost .
>> >
>> >>I want to hear about people doing permaculture and how they go about
>> >it. <
>> >
>> >Like I said in my earlier post, I'm still mainly observing.  The things
>we
>> >have done this first year are beginnings....steps in our learning about
>> >permaculture and sustainable living.  My next step is to fence my land
>so
>> I
>> >can add some cattle to my grazing system (following the work of
>Sallatin).
>> >Does anyone have suggestions for fence posts options that won't poison
>the
>> >earth?  I'm trying to restore some of the old buildings here and
>salvaging
>> >as much as I can from those too far gone to restore.  I'm learning
about
>> >fruit trees and hope to incorporate the existing trees into a self
>> >regenerating forest garden.  I have been observing the flow of runoff
on
>> >the
>> >land and I want to use swales or keyline plowing to keep more water on
>the
>> >land and perhaps create a pond for water, ducks, fish, reeds.....
>> >
>> >I was away from my computer for much of the summer, so maybe I missed
>some
>> >of your questions.  Where there specific things you wanted to discuss?
>I
>> >don't have tons of practical experience, but I have done a few things
>and
>> >I've read a ton.  I looked at your websites and I see you have amassed
a
>> >great deal of knowledge there.  I look forward to more browsing there.
>> >
>> >Please share some of your experieces with us.
>> >
>> >Peace,
>> >
>> >Paul
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
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