permaculture

["GlobalCirclenet" <webmaster@globalcircle.net>]

>Learning Pc can be done any of a number of ways: PDCs, books, study
groups,
>mentors, internships, etc.

I find it very odd that these workshop people don't stress learning
permaculture by actually practicing it. PDCs, books, study groups, mentors,
internships, but forgetting learning by doing, by working with the garden
and the animals. You see, actually getting out and doing it just doesn't
come to mind, does it. While we're on the subject, how many "certified"
people actually go out and do "permaculture design" for paying clients?
Does anyone know of any?

The root of the problem is still the fact PC is not new or original with
any of us. It is simply not a proprietary body of knowledge known only to
some inner circle. All the concepts and techniques have been around, in one
form or another, for ages. Most of what works has been promoted by many
farmers and writers. I suspect those who are sooo impressed by workshops
have never been introduced to the work of Elliot Coleman, the Nearings,
Ruth Stout, Joel Sallatin, Fukuoka, the Rodales, Jeavons, Steiner, and
many, many others.

Permaculture as envisioned by Mollison and Holmgren is a complete system.
It is an ecological system to LIVE IN, to nourish and be nourished by it.
It is not meant for the "supermarket shelf" approach, like I'll try some of
this and a little of that. If workshops don't even intend for participants
to set up and live in complete systems, then they are simply untrue to the
core permaculture vision. I ask those questions for a reason. I'm NOT
arguing that every workshop has to turn out 100% practicing
permaculturalists. I AM saying that if almost nobody comes out practicing
real permaculture, then it's frankly nothing but talk. Literally. All this
"ooooh it changed my life", when it changed absolutely nothing, is really
lame. I want to hear about people doing permaculture and how they go about
it. Do I have to hunt for some other list for that, or start one myself so
it won't be dominated by sales pitches for workshops and testimonials to
their wonderfulness?

paul@largocreekfarms.com
http://medicinehill.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 9/17/2004 at 11:24 AM Toby Hemenway wrote:

>"Anne Erlandson" <aerlandson1972@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I took a PDC last Dec and it changed my husband's and my lives.
>
>Thanks, Anne, for the great update after your PDC; wonderful that you've
>bought land. It was a delight to hang out with you for 2 weeks and it
fills
>me with joy to hear how much you are doing with the experience.
>
>So let's consider what a Permaculture Design Course is supposed to
>accomplish. Since a PDC is only 72 hours, it's considered very basic. The
>certificate is sometimes called a Pc Design Trainee Certificate (my old
one
>from Mollison says that), indicating that it is simply a preliminary step
>to
>introduce the Pc concept and provide resources and incentive for further
>study. It's a way of opening a door. Whether you walk in is up to you. No
>one suggests that taking a PDC will make you an expert or a designer worth
>hiring. It is explicitly meant to be followed by a great deal of study and
>practice. Two years is suggested before solo teaching or designing, but
the
>transition will obviously be gradual (there is also a formal diploma
>process, usually with tests). Many choose not to do the follow-up work,
>just
>as many biology majors don't become biologists after investing 4 years; no
>fault there.
>
>Learning Pc can be done any of a number of ways: PDCs, books, study
groups,
>mentors, internships, etc. I happen to favor the PDC because I honor and
>enjoy the tradition established by Bill of teaching Pc in a 2- or 3-week
>immersion. I like being in that lineage. Also, I teach it because it is so
>damned effective at conveying the concepts, and I love seeing, as Anne
>shows, how it transforms people. (If my motive were to make big money
doing
>workshops, I would be very stupid to be teaching Pc; almost any other kind
>of workshop pays much more.) I also offer Pc in a bunch of other ways,
>mostly unpaid.
>
>PDC classes are small and interactive enough so the instructor has a very
>good idea of who "gets it" and who doesn't, and the design project makes
>that very clear. Just as in school, both "A" and "D" students get their
>degree/certificate. (F students don't, as I've said earlier). Seeing an MD
>degree on the wall doesn't tell you if your doctor did well in med school.
>So when you're hiring a doctor, or a designer, you rely on referrals and
>the
>other checks and balances of our culture to inform you.
>
>When someone has completed the PDC and gotten a certificate, that means
>that
>they have been exposed to the PDC concept under the tutelage of someone
>more
>experienced, and have demonstrated through completing and presenting a
>design project that they can use the concept in a rudimentary way. Bottom
>line: all a certificate means is that you have taken a PDC, have some
>understanding of Pc, and are part of an honorable lineage. The tradition
is
>that it is not ethical to use the word "permaculture" commercially unless
>you have gotten a certificate, but there is no way to enforce that without
>a
>very expensive and to some, repellent legal process, so we rely on
people's
>conscience and their respect for a brilliant elder's wishes. So far, so
>good, mostly.
>
>It would be wonderful if the certificate meant more, but you can't expect
>mastery after only 2 week's training (which is done by teachers who must
do
>other things beside teaching, like design, to make ends meet. I know of no
>teachers whose income comes solely from teaching. That in itself limits
how
>much time we can spend developing Pc's administrative infrastructure. Any
>volunteers?) There are diplomas and internships for those who want more
>formal work. The certificate is a tradition we honor, mostly; maybe a rite
>of passage, handed down by the master. Someday it may mean more when
>dedicated volunteers, grant-writers, or others choose to make it so.
>
>Thus a PDC is one way to take a first step toward mastering Pc. There are
>many others. Believe me, there's nothing novel in saying there are flaws
in
>the PDC process. Some awfully smart and experienced people have thought
and
>talked long and hard about it. Nothing I've seen in this thread about the
>weaknesses of the PDC is new to this list; that's why I only respond to a
>few of the questions or misconceptions (check the list archives for much
>more). There is no dark secret, no questions nobody wants asked. (I also
>won't waste my time answering belligerent, ill-thought-out, or paranoid
>fantasy questions that a moment's honest thought would answer.)
>
>The hard evidence, stated by nearly everyone who has taken one, is that
the
>PDC is utterly transformative, and I know no other way of learning Pc that
>is consistently so. If you really want a certificate but are broke, there
>are plenty of ways to get one. (To repeat--yet again: work trade,
>scholarships, grants, loans, non-residential course, set up your own
>course,
>independent college course, intern for an instructor, cook for a course,
>etc. Be creative. Talk to someone. If there's a fence around Pc, it's a
>very
>low fence with many open gates, so standing in front of it and whining
just
>looks silly.)
>
>Don't want a certificate? Don¹t take a PDC. Just learn Pc with friends
and
>do it. There's no monopoly on practicing Pc. Think the certificate is a
>waste of time and want to see something better? Then offer a better
>solution
>and write a grant or find some other way to make it possible to institute
>the necessary changes. I'd love to see better or cheaper ways to get more
>people doing Pc. So make it happen. But please don't be in the minority
>that
>just argues down ludicrous straw men and looks for reasons why it's all so
>very, very evil and elitist and badly organized. Permaculture is about
>solutions. Find some.
>
>Toby
>www.patternliteracy.com
>
>
>
>
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