permaculture

[Ute Bohnsack <sustag@eircom.net>]

Dear all,
Alt.permaculture readers may remember my question abouts ducks and
chickens, my despair about slugs, and my self-confessed lazyness about
weeding. Well, I have been seriously toying with an idea now for the
past couple days, inspired a while back by Doug Norval from South Africa
who unfortunately I cannot contact
(e-mail bounces) to see has his system worked out.
Well, I would like to bounce this off you guys to see what I'm missing
and to ask some questions which you may be able to answer from your
experience.

The aim of the design is to combine the benefits of chickens and Indian
runner ducks with the veggie garden.
The birds need: housing with good light, dryness, warmth, nests,
perches, water and food, some shelter outdoors, protection from
predators (dogs,mink,foxes)
The birds provide: eggs, meat, scratching/clearing ground/eating
critter, slug eating, fertilizer etc.
The garden needs: ground clearing, SERIOUS slug control, fertilizer
The garden provides: food for us, and leftovers for the birds, and joy
if the dreaded slugs are gone!

Imagine four concentric octagons (with the same square footage of
walls/fencing, an octagon plan encloses 20% more space than a
conventional rectangular ground plan - i.e. less material needed).

Starting from the inside: (exchange yards / square yards for meters if
you wish)
1) Poultry house - 3m  in diameter. c. 7m2 surface area
2) Straw yard - 1m wide all around, c. 13m2 surface area
3) 8 garden beds 3m wide (c. 10m2 each), with the south (sunward)-facing
one of the 8 sections as access to the whole thing for myself and for
the birds to the outer perimeter (4). The 8 sections divided by simple
but bird-proof fencing to allow for controlled one-by-one access. Is
also handy for crop rotation purposes. Gives me 70m2 growing area which
is not allowed but if it works will grow more crops than I'm growing now
as I'm loosing 90% to - guess what - slugs.
4) Slug control zone - 1.5m wide

If you are still reading on, I suggest you take out a piece of paper and
draw the four concentric octagons roughly.  Alternatively I could try
and put a rough ground plan on
http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture-online/index.html

At any one time the birds (c. 6-7 chickens + a pair of Indian runners)
would have outdoor access to the straw yard (2), the access section (one
eights of (3)) and the outer perimeter - all in all 85m2
As required the birds can be given access to the cultivated garden
sections in (3) to perform their little duties.

The size of the whole thing is limited by terrain/available space in the
appropriate location (near to house) It determines 14m diameter in all.


Additional thoughts:

 * I could have the south-facing third of the octagon as a very small
greenhouse (the ol' chickens + greenhouse idea) where I could grow a few
sweetcorn plants (as C4 plants they actually DO capture the CO2 breathed
out by the birds at night, as opposed to non-C4 plants - a flaw I always
saw in the general idea of combining the two; and corn can deal with a
substantial amount of chicken sh**.), plus some herbs etc. for regular
use could be grown on the partition wall ->
I would section off this area with nestboxes opening into greenhouse
space for egg collection + thermal mass wall off some kind + screening
in upper half, and a door to the birds' area. While this would give good
heat absorption there has to be some compromise with light penetration
into the coop proper. Big windows on the E, W, SE, SW, and S side could
remedy that.

* I could have a very small (max. c. 2*2m) water area for the ducks in
the access section in (3), which would also reflect some more light into
the house in winter if properly positioned.

My problems:

* Fencing: we need good predator protection, so the outer perimeter must
be very strong (probably ugly chain-link @ 5-6 ft). How does one get a
proper door into that?
The inner fences must protect the veg garden from unwanted attention by
the birds. How high should they be? (I know how to clip chicken wings,
and IRD I believe do not fly). What material should I use?

* Access: Should I go from the outside in, i.e. one door from outer
perimeter, a door each into each of the 10m2 garden sections?
Or should I go right into the straw yard and put doors from the straw
yard outwards to each of the garden sections, rather than just popholes
for occassional bird access?
If I share one of the sections (3) as an access with the birds, I'll
presumably have to walk through a lot of poo? Is there an alternative?

* Material for house:
Wood - good material but fierce expensive in this treeless country, on
the pro side I have a lot of old windows, i.e. not so much wood needed
Stone - good thermal mass, local material but thick walls limit space
even more
Timberframe plus wattle + daub - really like that idea, is it rat-proof
though?
Floor: all serious poultry books seem to say that one needs a dry floor
w/o rising damp to keep birds healthy and productive. Any ideas/
experiences? (We have 1000mm precipitation)
Roof: a simple greenroof/grassroof is appealing but what shape might you
suggest for an octagon? Access roof water could somehow by syphoned into
a rainwater drum for birds, and plants, and little 'pond'.
Insulation: as long as the house is reasonably dry this is not so much
of an issue here (Jan aver. 6 degrees C, July aver. 15 day-time temps.)

* Birds functions:
The chickens and ducks fulfill very different functions. But since they
live in the same house, is there a way to, say, get the ducks into an
established planting off cabbages to clear the slugs w/o letting the
chooks in as well. I havent' kept ducks so I'm not familiar with their
habits.
Also, is the slug control zone wide enough @1.5m? I know slugs can
travel considerably further in a night but space is limited but from
experience here I know that they don't really like crossing a bare area.
-> Bird densities must be so regulated that this area stays relatively
bare or at least in very short grass without overcrowding the birds (min
10m2 per bird oudoors). 


As you can see the design process is far from finished - perhaps I'm
going off on the wrong tangent altogether?

Any inputs and ideas are warmly welcome.

Cheers,
Ute