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  • From: Permacltur@aol.com
  • To: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: Let's continue a global directory on-line...
  • Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:44:39 EDT



In a message dated 7/27/99 3:10:05 PM, hanzibra@svn.com.br writes:

<<I don't think there is a real conflict here. I understood that the IPJ is
not doing
the on-line directory probably because that is a lot of unpaid work, which is
understandable. There is certainly an argument for a printed directory for
those who
have no e-mail access, which is rapidly becomeing fewer and fewer, even here
in
Brazil. But a printed directory does not make much sense to those who DO
have e-mail
access, as, as I pointed out, they soon become outdated . And I agree
totally with
you -- they are very expensive and time-consuming to put out, and the people
who go to
the trouble have great difficulty even getting back what they put into it,
much less
earn money from it.>>

Marsha:
First, you missed my main point. It is up to IPJ, who started this,
not you or I or April, to decide whether they want to continue it or if
another format works better.

Second, obviously the feel that the print sales they will lose from
having a web page will undercut the practically of putting out the print
edition. So either someone pirates their work, which is so-called
permaculturists stealing from real permaculurists, or they duplicate their
work, which is a violation of permaculture ethics. I am sure that if people
want a web page badly enough to pay a royalty to IPJ every time it is used,
the problem is solved. I strongly suspect that we have yet another case of
people trying to dispose of resources they didn't create and aren't willing
to pay for themselves.

Frankly, if we can't get someone from IPJ in on this conversation, I
can see where it can produce any ethical results. We need to know what they
think about the matter. And unless we have helped pay for their costs and
labor, we have no right to any expectations whatsover about how they handle
their resources.

I see this problem over and over again in the "permaculture'
movement. People do a great deal of work to create a resource and put it
out. It gets ripped off or they decide they can't afford to offer it without
more compensation. So they chane how it is available. Instead of being
grateful that it was EVER available, people get pissed off because the free
lunch is over. If Marsha or April or Dan have resources in excess of need,
it is our responsibility to decide that they are surplus and to dispose of
them. It only our responsibility, no one elses. Robin Hood is not a
permaculture concept. If IPJ has created a resource, it is their and only
their responsibility to decide how it should be available and under what
terms.

Frankly, the difference between an annually updated print directory
and a randomly updated web page is pretty small. As one who moved about
quite a bit for a number of years, it is my problem that people lost track
of me and therefore didn't buy my publications. they don't have a RIGHT to
know where I am and I don't have a RIGHT for someone else to tell them. I'd
RATHER have a print directory that I pay a fair price for than a web site.
It is a pain in the ass to use web sites and either I have to turn on my
computer and wait until it fires up or else interrupt what I am doing on the
computer. (Obviously, if it is on, I am using it for something else.) That
is way more disruptive to my work that reaching over and taking a directory
from a bookshelf.

If the ethical argument doesn't work for you, consider that you may kill the
goose that lays the golden eggs. If you undercut the IPJ by publishing
their work on the web, they may well say screw it and then no one will be
gathering that sort of information systematically. that is about their
least reactive option. Rather than make enemies of them, why not find out
what they want todo?

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence
courses via email. Copyright, 1998, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52,
Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com

We don't have time to rush.

A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at
http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html
Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers
assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html




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