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  • From: Stephanie Gerson <sgerson@stanfordalumni.org>
  • To: <pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [pcplantdb] synthesis[20][9.8.04]
  • Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:42:48 -0700

hi everyone,

Quite a discussion about listservs. A few points/questions:

à Fine with me if the pcplantdb list is not open.

à Although it is not open, as Lawrence asked, would we like the
archives to
be public?

à Thank you to Lee for your critical question asking what it is that we
would
need help with, and to Chad for responding. I agree with Rich that we ought
to have a mechanism allowing people to help in this regard. What if we had a
page of the permaculture.info website dedicated to this, on which we (er,
Chad, Rich, and Johns) post technical questions we have to solicit responses.
(Is this what you meant by “formal feature requests page,” Rich?)

à Lawrence, you are confusing and overwhelming me. I thought that the
pcinfo list WAS the public list for PIW (the non-techie complement to the
pcplantdb list). Am I incorrect? If so, what is pcinfo for? To respond more
specifically to what you wrote:

“This will stand as is. It will serve a supportive role for PIW by helping
people develop and promote their information resources and make them
Web-ready. It is for PIW people and others working on similar projects,
especially those wanting to be part of an Open Permaculture Project
extranet.”
So then why are you making a piw list? Isn’t the pcinfo list the same as
what the piw list would be?

”These lists: permaculture, pc-knowledgebase, permacultureinfo and
openpermaculture will all be linked to their own webspace and wikispace. I
hope that having resources in these locations will make them more accessable
to the PIW DB, launch-ready for inclusion in the DB using a variety of
methods.”
Is this overwhelming to anyone but me? Can we please work with fewer lists
with more distinct identities than more lists with less distinct identities?


“When you are ready to go public with an announcement of PIW,”
You already went public without consulting the group.

“ At that time I will create a new list for this purpose: piw,
piw@lists.ibiblio.org. piw is a much better name for our public forum than
permacultureinfo (which partly reflects our domain name only). The
permacultureinfo list is needed for discussion about permaculture information
management and will be used by others besides PIW, same with openpermaculture
and pc-knowledgebase. pcplantdb@ and piw@ will be the PIW lists and more can
be added if needed.”
Once again, I thought we agreed that pcinfo was dedicated *specifically* to
the PIW, and was the non-techie list for it. Since when did we want a list
about “permaculture information management,” and if the list is going to
be this general, why should it even exist? Please clarify what your
intentions are for a pcinfo list that is DIFFERENT from a piw list and the
already-existing permaculture lists, and any other already-existing
permaculture-related list, for that matter.

à Lee wrote, “maybe we could simply solicit ideas from potential users
about what they'd like to see from the project, on the existing public permie
lists? And then leave the ultimate design process, decision making, and of
course actual programming up to a very small group on this list?”

Thank you Lee, this was exactly our intention. Stephanie’s wish list:
1. one listserv for logistics and technical details of PIW (not open to
public
subscription) – pcplantdb
2. one listserv for more general and design-related aspects of PIW (open
to
public subscription) – pcinfo (and if pcinfo is not this, then we need
something else)
3. one PIW website – www.permaculture.info


à I’m thinking that perhaps I should write up a one-pager of this project
– longer than the listserv statement, shorter than grant proposal
descriptions, and MUCH shorter than the vision I sent out a while ago. We
could post this on the permaculture.info website (this IS the website for piw
– is it not? Or is Lawrence going to tell me that it is a website for
“permaculture information management” now? Sorry, I’m being a brat) and
offer it to people who would a bit more than a brief 2-sentence description of
the wondrous hg…

shana tova
with apples and honey
*Stephanie


p.s. hi Lawrence, I swear I am not trying to pick on you, but the number of
websites and listservs is just getting way out of hand. IMO hg needs 2
listservs and one website. C’est tout.


------ Original Message ------
Received: 12:43 PM PDT, 09/15/2004
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
To: pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [pcplantdb] synthesis[20][9.8.04]

Richard Morris wrote:

> I think I'd tend to agree here(i.e. pcplantdb close to new subscribers).
> At the moment we have quite a tight group and seem to be getting on with
> things quite well. Allowing new people in at this stage probably means
> we have to go through the whole vision thing again, disruptive! The
> other lists can be more open access.

So, on this list' homepage I have added:
"People wanting to involve themselves with the technical
and logistical aspects of this project are encouraged to subscribe to this
few-member yet
high-traffic list. Anyone wishing to join should send email to lfl@intrex.net
letting us know
who you are, location, area(s) of expertise and reason for being interested in
joining the forum. "

If you wish I can delete this though if anyone wants to go to all the trouble
to send email
about joining maybe their request should be reviewed in this list. I expect
these will be few and far between
so should not add negatively to the S/N ratio here.

> One though is that we could have a formal feature requests page on
> permaculture.info, that way we could still encourage new input and
> ideas. (is this a bug issue?)

That's a great idea. Maybe have another area for programmers interested in
helping.

--
L.F.London
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
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+++++++++++++++
Stephanie Gerson
sgerson@stanfordalumni.org
(c) 415.871.5683


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