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  • From: Stephanie Gerson <sgerson@stanfordalumni.org>
  • To: <pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [pcplantdb] synthesis[13][8.22.04]
  • Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:33:04 -0700

howdy folks,

As Scott recommended, I changed my Ibiblio options from daily digest to
individual posts – meaning I’ll be reading and responding to posts more
promptly (and be able to reply to specific threads).

Alrighty, so here’s the lowdown:

-NAME –
John S. suggested a four-word combination between the two proposed names,
such as “Open Permaculture Information Web” or “Open Permaculture Info
Web.” Personally, I’d rather leave it less wordy and go with a 3-word
name. (And like John S., I’m not too into “InfoWeb.”)

Chad writes, “I like them both equally well, but 'Permaculture
Information Web' more closely matches the domain name, so I cast my vote
for that.” I agree.

Lawrence suggested that the Open Permaculture Project be “a collaboration
of permaculture websites,” and that we stick with some combination of
Permaculture, Information, and Web – “Permaculture Informationweb” or
“Permaculture Information Web” – for our name. Sounds fine with me.

However, I would be wary of a name whose acronym is OPP – are you down
with OPP? Or does that tell you what generation I’m a part of…

Summary: it seems like people either like both names, or deem
“Permaculture Information Web” more appropriate for our project. So
unless anyone objects (speak now or…), let’s go with “Permaculture
Information Web” for hg, and plan that it will be part of the “Open
Permaculture Project” (which PFAF, Eden, and Lawrence’s website will
hopefully be part of too!) in the future…

Si?


-ZOPE/IBIBLIO -
Damn. Still not resolved. But we’re getting there.

John S. wrote, “I'd much prefer we get paid for our work and spend a
little bit on hosting than buy someone else an expensive server and get
paid little or nothing for our work.”

Chad reiterated his view, writing “I propose that we use the Zope
platform to implement HG/permaculture.info starting on arashi.com. When
we have a product available for mainstream use we will either move to
ibiblio if Zope is available or purchase hosting services from a
commercial provid such as johncompanies. We will continue to seek out
funding to procure a server for ibiblio and/or encourage establishment of
a Zope platform at ibiblio and hopefully migrate there before the end of
the year.”

And Lawrence wrote, “I'm supportive of whatever you and Rich decide to do
as long as the project ends up on ibiblio within a reasonable timeframe
(so they can watchdog it and so we will avoid years of server and
maintenance costs). A lot of us really want this project to happen and
for it to meet everyone's expectations to become a world class PC info
resource, as PFAF currently is for plants, and are looking forward to
many years of using and supporting it.”

Rich seemed willing to pursue either option, and I’m happy as long as all
yalls are happy. But I do agree with Scott that the functionality of the
database is critical, and therefore the platform choice is of utmost
importance.

So, it appears that the most satisfactory compromise is that we go with
ZOPE on arashi while I solicit further funding to donate a server for
Ibiblio. That way, we would not be cutting into our wage $, using the
platform of choice, and plan to end up on Ibiblio within a reasonable
timeframe (how long would the timeframe be, Lawrence?).

Do all of you agree with this? And if so, would we want to:
a) take out a loan from PCU to buy the server now, and pay for it with
funds we receive in the future?
b) not take out a loan, and wait until we have received further grants/
donations in or to buy the server?

A few other related notes:
‡ Thanks to Richard for trying out ZOPE. No clue what you did, but looks
like you got bizzy.

‡ John S. wrote, “I'll spend the time to find some other possible
academic/institutional "free" hosts if/when someone else spends the time
to answer my non-trivial questions about the long-term viability of
ibiblio.” Actually, it would be helpful if you could spend this time now
– I think Lawrence would gladly answer your questions about the long-term
viability of Ibiblio. I know there are hosts who offer good/free deals
to non-profits, such as Laughing Squid. I’m taking the liberty of adding
this to your tasks, John – assigning tasks is a perk of dealing with the
project plan, I guess ;)

‡ John S. wrote, “Also on hosting - we don't even know if we can host our

issue tracker on ibiblio yet, never mind zope!” Hmm?? If this is a
concern that’s going to seriously affect our ability to use ZOPE or work
with Ibiblio, we need to figure this out. Can you please elaborate?

‡ John S. wrote, “Somewhere back there we appeared to consensus on using
XML to go from back end to a variety of front ends. If that is still the
consensus, it doesn't matter what platform as long as we can generate
XML to carry the info to the front end - be it web forms, graphical
representations, etc. etc.” Just wanted to make sure with everyone – is
this the consensus?

John S. also wrote, “XML being the Esperanto wannabe of cross-platform
data transmission, anything worth considering as a platform will need to
have XML generating capabilities” – does ZOPE have these capabilities?

**Please respond to the plan I suggested above, and whether you would
like to pursue option a) or b).


-$$$ -
Congratulations Scott, for successfully completing your first task!
Since you did so well, I’m gonna have to give you more…hehee

Everyone, where should Scott send the check? To my address? Will I be
dealing with the distribution of funds, then?

John S. asked about the $15/hour figure, and seemed (understandably!)
displeased. When I was creating the budget for the grant proposal, I
posted messages to the list asking about wages and what would be
reasonable. I think no one responded except for Rich. I also remember
not wanting to spend too much on wages, for fear that it wouldn’t look
too good (I decided this after speaking with someone from the Threshold
Foundation about budget etiquette). So, I apologize if you are
dissatisfied with the wage. But. As I mentioned in a previous post, the
Threshold Foundation doesn’t limit how much money can be spent on wages –

so we can definitely pay more than $15/hour, depending on how we want to
allocate our funds (something which we’ll need to discuss further).

And Lawrence wrote, “Definitely, if you can use 100% of the grant for
programming wages then, by all means do it. As I said, I will contribute
$$ toward wages or computer. Payment of $250 per quarter for two years
are possible for me, made to the PI (they will absorb $200 for their
fee). If that $250 is better used to make payments on a PCU loan that's
OK but still made every 3 months. Donation of this $2200 is contingent on
our project being developed and hosted on ibiblio from the start.” Great
ideas, Lawrence, and thank you for your generosity!


-PROJECT PLAN -
Thank you to everyone who gave me updates! I will revise the task list
and send it out tomorrow, along with a list of questions that were raised
in this synthesis for you to answer.

A few quick notes:
‡ Did the two Johns ever figure out the Bugzilla issue?

‡ What is our shared web workspace? Chad assumed it was the wiki, but
then criticized wikis’ ability to provide an effective shared workspace.
So, do we wish to abandon the wiki then? (I know I had a hard time using
it…) If so, would we like to use some form of shared web workspace other
than this listserv? Lawrence asked if “a temporary website on ibiblio be
of use, as in www.ibiblio.org/pcplantdb or some other name” - would this
be a shared web workspace or something else?

‡ Chad wrote, “I'm a little nervous working with Rich because I don't
think we are really on the same level. I think we can work together but
I think there should be either a clear task delineation or an
understanding that our working relationship will not be consensus based
and that I will lead the technical direction.” Chad, I would like you
and Rich to discuss these concerns. Something else I get to add to the
task list ;)

‡ Thanks for taking care of domain transfer, Chad.

Phewww, well that’s it for now. More manana…

buenas noches,
*Stephanie

p.s. What’s IMO?


+++++++++++++++
Stephanie Gerson
sgerson@stanfordalumni.org
(c) 415.871.5683


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