North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["road's end farm" <organic101@linkny.com>]

 On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 04:25 PM, Keith Benson wrote:

> Quality of life certainly counts - and that is a decision every cat owner must make.  Notice in my post I did not say keep them indoors, merely made you aware of the relative risk.  I have known many many cats that would have been ill-suited to live indoors.  There are those that think that every cat can be an indoor cat, and while I think that the vast majority are perfectly happy that way, I do not kid myself into thinking that this is 100% true.

Cats who have never been outdoors usually don't seem to miss it. Cats who have been indoor-outdoor cats are often very unhappy if they can't get out.
> > [...], outdoor cats in a stable area that have survived longer than a year tend to have considerable lifespans.  More of them die each year than indoor cats, but it is true that expereinced cats can do OK.  The question to be answered everytime one decides to make their cat an indoor vs. out door cat is will this cat make it past that year?  And FWIW - many cats that are experieinced do still get run over, or become ill and cannot get home and then taken for assistance.

I have indoor/outdoor cats, generally shut in at night since the coyotes moved in. The last four cats who died here were seventeen, twelve (of a rare tumor at the vaccination site), eighteen, and nineteen and a half. None of them died of outdoor injuries. I have not had a cat disappear for over ten years. The current feline population is about five, about ten, and one month short of sixteen.

> [ . . .]there is risk and there is stupid risk.  In my neighborhood having an outdoor cat is a stupid risk.  Three of my enighbors have tried in the last year.  Haven't seen those cats in a while.  And I am sure no one stole them.
It makes a *lot* of difference where you live. In some neighborhoods, and next to some roads, a cat's chances of survival outdoors are extremely poor. People who keep cats in such areas should not let them out. One reason I wanted a farm at the end of the road was because I knew people who lived on main roads, most of whose farm cats didn't live long enough to know how to survive the traffic.

> Again - I am not telling anyone to never have an outdoor cat - just realize that about half will not see their second birthday.  
I am curious to know where the statistic comes from. I'd also like to know what conditions it covers. Many outdoor cats are outdoor-only cats, not inoculated, not given any veterinary care, often not properly fed (though sometimes the people whose barns and outbuildings they take shelter in think they are feeding them properly). Many farmers in this area (and I suspect also in other areas) think of cats as a sort of wild beneficial; a few around the barn keep the mice down, but the humans don't feel any responsibility to provide for them, beyond an occasional bowl of milk (which adult cats often can't digest properly). A mortality rate of 50% among kittens under such circumstances would not be surprising; but it also wouldn't apply to properly cared for cats.

I am certainly not saying there is no risk involved; but you need to consider your particular situation, not just assume that the risk is the same in all cases.

> From: "John Barbowski" <jbarbowski@hotmail.com>
> Date: Fri Feb 21, 2003  06:05:58 PM US/Eastern
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] A rewarding little fruit...
> Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>
> Speaking of mortality, studies in Great Britain have shown that the domestic cat reduced song bird populations in urban areas by as much as 50%!

I don't know about urban areas, with possible concentrations at birdfeeders etc, and also in some cases with very high concentrations of feral cats.  In my experience most cats very rarely manage to catch a bird, and take almost entirely mice, moles, and occasionally young rabbits.

I also don't know what the normal percentage of predation deaths is of songbirds in areas with natural predators and no domestic cats. I would guess it's pretty high.
> In Toronto, (and ather urban areas I would assume), A high percentage (75-80% I believe) of outdoor cats are infelted with a virus. Cats also carry a virus that is very detrimantal to the foetus in pregnant women.

There are a number of viruses which can infect cats. Most of them are dangerous only to the cats, and many can be vaccinated against. Any cat that goes outdoors (and many that don't) should be vaccinated against diseases prevalent in the area. Your veterinary should know which these are.

The disease that is dangerous to the human fetus is toxoplasmosis. There is a lot more of this organism around than most people realize, Many people have had it and don't know it (I've heard, from vets and doctors, estimates of twenty to fifty percent of the human population). My medical encyclopedia says that the most common way for humans to catch it is by eating undercooked meat from an infected animal. I believe you can also catch it from contact with soil containing the organism. You can also get it from contact with feces from an infected cat. If you've had it once I don't think you can get it again. Usually there are no symptoms, or symptoms are minor and mistaken for a cold or flu. If a woman catches it during early pregnancy it can cause serious damage to the fetus, which is why pregnant women should not handle cat pans. In very rare cases it can turn into a serious illness otherwise. Your chances of getting into serious trouble with toxoplasmosis, whether or not you keep cats, are a lot lower than of getting into serious trouble with a car accident.

--Rivka
Finger Lakes NY; zone 5 mostly