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  • From: Nan Hildreth <NanHildreth AT riseup.net>
  • To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>, market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] clearing land cost?
  • Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:24:04 -0500

How's this summary?
Clearing costs maybe $1,500 an acre. Or maybe that + plenty of sweat and skullsweat.
Clearing is at best a long-term investment.
Before you call the logger or dozer man, think, ask advice, plan.
It might be better to get your own equipment.
It might be better to keep some of your wood for lumber, fuel.
It might be better to put your livestock to work clearing.
The mess after clearcutting has cost as much to de-stump and de-root as the tree revenue when timber prices were high 40 years ago.
Learn something about your trees before you kill them.
If your hardwoods are good enough for veneer, it's worth lots more than lumber.
The right solution depends on land, farmer.

Nan in Texas

At 01:47 AM 5/10/2010, KAKerby AT aol.com wrote:
I've not had the chance to get back to this question until now, but that gave me the opportunity to read through some of the other responses. Now I can toss in stuff that hasn't already been mentioned, instead of just repeating stuff that other folks have already pointed out.

First, I'd point out that your question whether to 'find a forest crop' or 'call the dozer guy' is artificially restricting yourself to only two of many options. For one thing, there's nothing to say you can't do both. Keep part of the forest intact, and explore either traditional lumber crops, and/or alternative forest crops, if either of those appeal to you. Then clear the other portion for whatever else you want to do. It certainly doesn't have to be either/or.

Secondly, if you do decide to clear some or all of that land, there are a lot of different ways to do that. First, the land can be professionally clearcut logged and that lumber carted off, and someone cuts you a check. Or, the land can be selectively logged and just certain trees carted off, and someone cuts you a check. Maybe a smaller check, but then again maybe not, depending on the forestry species you have. Or, the trees can be kept around awhile and you could clear just the underbrush, which may or may not have economic value itself. Clearing the underbrush but leaving the upper canopy intact could give you exactly the environment you want for shade crops, plus those trees are still there to be harvested later if you wish. Or, go ahead and call in the dozer guy who could push over the trees rather than harvest them, so you'd have a lot of new habitat on your property (but precious little prepared land ready for tilling). That underbrush could be cleared by you (a drag of a job but some folks enjoy it), mechanically by tractor, brush cutter or other implement, or "biologically" via livestock of a variety of species.

Third, a lot of this decision depends on stuff you bring to the table - your goals, your priorities, your resources (time, money, energy). It also depends on what that land already has on it. If it's flat rich ground with easy access, full of high-dollar trees, and you want to become a cattle baron, you could make a nice profit from the lumber sale and have it converted over to pasture within a year. If it's sloped ground with trash trees and no easy access, and you want to grow corn, you might not be able to sell enough to recover the cost of logging it, plus the lousy crop you'd get later would make it an exercise in futility. Your particular scenario is probably somewhere in between. Also the method you choose should coincide with your goals post-clearing - if you want lots of wildlife habitat, the dozer would tear up some kinds of habitat but create others. However, a dozer would leave you a heckuva mess to churn through before you could plant anything. A selective or clearcutting logging team could get in there and do a nice clean job and you'd never have to deal with the wood again. But if you want the wood, you could have it milled or split right there. Lots and lots of options.

Permits, regulations and incentives are another issue. A lot of areas now either have incentives to reward land clearing, or regulations saying it can't be done except by jumping through all these here hoops. Whichever is the case, you may very well need permits to do much beyond 5000 board feet of lumber per year. That's the rule here, and you can reach that point on less than an acre of good forested land. So you'll want to check into that before you make any firm decisions.

Our farm consists of almost seven acres of climax mixed species forest, with a very dense understory. We initially looked into logging it as a way to bring in some money and prep the site for other uses. But the combination of permit requirements, land use concerns and access concerns on our particular site meant that we would have lost money on a logging job. At least we found that out before the fact. We did not have a tractor of our own, and we did not like the idea of other folks using tractors or bulldozers on our sloping ground, if they could have even gotten that kind of equipment in here at all. So that option was out. But livestock were already a part of our plans, so we put them to work in the woods doing clearing for us. So far they've done a nice job and we're slowly but surely getting the land shifted over from forest to ag production, slowly enough that we're below the radar permit-wise. And since all that browse reduces their feed bill, we end up saving money with that approach instead of spending money. Meanwhile, we are investigating a variety of shade crops, a few of which we've moved forward on, but they aren't going to be our one-and-only thing. We ultimately plan to have a diversified operation, featuring both wooded and open areas, and profitable uses from both.

I hope some part of that helps you figure out what you're going to do, and how best to go about it. But whatever you decide, don't think for a minute there's only one way to do it. There's lots of ways to skin that cat. Best to figure out what your goals are, then how to meet them. Not rely on artificially imposed limits.
Kathryn Kerby
frogchorusfarm.com
Snohomish, WA


In a message dated 5/9/2010 6:22:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, frank.dragonflyfarms AT gmail.com writes:
I for one vote to keep the discussion here and suspect some others might agree. Prime tillable land is hard to come and I have considered purchasing forest land to clear, but don’t know the first thing about the costs to do so either.

So I lease, but someday want to own my own land.

From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KAKerby AT aol.com
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:02 PM
To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] clearing land cost?

This is something of a loaded question, in the sense that there are quite a few variables at play. Hard to give a single yes/no answer without a whole lot more detail. Our farm started 10 years ago on overgrown forested land and most of it is still in that condition, so this is a very big, ongoing issue for us. I'd be happy to talk with you at length (off list cuz it's probably not pertinent to enough folks), to go over what we've done here, what's worked, what hasn't, etc. But I will say right now that we have yet to hire "the dozer man". And we have no plans at the moment to do so. Let me know if I can provide any more insight/assistance as you make your plans........

Kathryn Kerby
frogchorusfarm.com
Snohomish, WA

In a message dated 5/8/2010 12:01:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, NanHildreth AT riseup.net writes:

Is clearing forest land too expensive? Should I find a forest crop
instead? If I hire a dozer man, will he ruin the soil?
Nan Hildreth 713-842-6643
Action is the antidote to despair....
Joan Baez
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Nan Hildreth 713-842-6643

Action is the antidote to despair....
Joan Baez




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