Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[Pete Vukovich <pvukovic1@yahoo.com>]

I wasn't trying to pick on doctors although when I reread what I wrote it sounded that way. Sorry about the tone, it just seemed like the best example of how difficult for the human brain it can be to diagnose a biological or physiological condition.

Reading weeds is a highly localized activity and I'm certainly not an expert, plenty of books I've mulled over talk about particular weeds , but I usually don't end up seeing them. What little knowledge I have comes from asking local experts and occasional moments of insight based on hours of looking. Forcing a succession sometimes will bring you up to date. If I remove a weed from an area I like to see what comes back  - sometimes the changes are striking. Doing this I've noticed things like certain tar weeds taking over some places and coyote brush winning the ground in others.

The balance of weeds is also probably telling a complex story. I find milk and italian thistles grow well together but I've noticed milk wins ground in strange places like under eucalyptus and on the edges of fields where there has been more run off. I'll often find star thistles when there's lower organic content, or a lower organic profile - but not always.  Competitions between hairy ox tongue, teasel , and swamp hemlock tend to be striking in areas with subsurface water and riperian zones where I live.

Looking at rocks is one of those underutilized 'other factors' in my opinion -  different granites , serpentine, and tuffs bear different minerals (calcium, potassium, iron , ....) or so my geologist friends tell me. Its good to make friends with a competent geologist or become one I think.


--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Andeanfx <andeanfx@midrivers.com> wrote:

From: Andeanfx <andeanfx@midrivers.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] The only way to tell what your soil reallyneeds???
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:03 PM

Thanks Pete, this was well put.  I "used to be" one of those Dr. things :-).  I guess once the degree is conferred it sticks for life.  Not an M.D. but close enough to see how things work from that side of the fence and this is very true.

 

I would like very much to have reasonably concise information on reading the weeds and as you put it "other fctors" which I am going to take as simple observation of what the plant is doing and hw it is acting.

 

Does anybody have favorite books or reference material on the above?

 

Thanks  Dean

 

 

I have been through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened. -- Mark Twain

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Pete Vukovich

To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] The only way to tell what your soil reallyneeds???

I understand what you're saying, but the same goes for doctors you see more than one, in most cases they will draw different conclusions for the same set of symptoms, even if its the same doctor on different days. Unfortunately I'm absolutely serious about this. If they have different specialties or are a gp vs a specialist they will almost always draw the conclusion that fits their profession/most recent marketing material/most recent patient/ or journal article. Very few can diagnose even simple infections even given a lab test.

 If you know a little about the labs testing methodology (eg are they testing for aluminum or looking at boron directly) then it gives you a clearer idea of where their biases might be. It also helps you choose a lab if you run into a similar situation later on. But just like a doctor its not something I think most people would worry about until their soil is sick and they can't read the weeds , don't know the history , can't tell from other factors, and don't have any intuition as to whats causing its condition.

---pete


--- On Sat, 8/28/10, pete <pete.rout@virgin.net> wrote:

From: pete <pete.rout@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] The only way to tell what your soil really needs???
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 11:34 AM

I think what most people are saying is that as the test doesn't really tell you anything, as if you send to more than one tester you get more than one answer, is there really any point in testing?
Pete

> I'm bowing out of this discussion (and am pondering my continuance on this list).  When the majority of people here (people that I thought had more ability to reason) believe that if one were to obtain a soil test that somehow one is FORCED to use chemical fertilizers.  Where is the logic in this?
>
> I wonder what would have happened if all those revered institutions never bothered to perform soil tests?
>
> Yes, we're all fighting the corporate system, but this is starting to have all the feel of fighting fanaticism with fanaticism.
>
>
> -Mark Nagel
> Everett, WA

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