Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[mdnagel@verizon.net]

"And I have yet to see any significant evidence of some key elements missing 
in well-composted and amended soil"

But... what is "well composted and amended soil?"

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but just saying these words provides no 
real clarification or present an apparent guide as to how one achieves this 
state of balance >should there be a significant imbalance<.

I am in total agreement that balance is key, but when that balance is out of 
whack it seems that there would be a need for _more_ , or less, of something 
to put it back in whack.  And, given that it's clear that different crops 
take up different amounts of minerals I think that it's pretty safe to say 
that different crop residues won't necessarily replace the minerals extracted 
and exported from another crop.

I have not, and will not, suggest that soil tests are some magic bullet, I 
know better than that.  But on the other hand I don't believe that any random 
composting of materials is a magic bullet for just any soil deficiencies.

Again, I'm not arguing that soil tests can be all that knowing/telling.  As 
you note, soil is very complex, in which case "well-composed and amended 
soil" seems, to me, to be a bit too simple of a guideline to address 
imbalances: do I get more cow/horse manure, or do I get more <fill in the 
blank>?  Sure, over time if one were to overwhelm existing deficient soil 
with "balanced" amendments then one would achieve a balance.

"Variety is a simple thing; the Rodales and other organic writers have long 
urged incorporating plant matter from various plants rather than just a 
single plant source."

Again, simple enough to state, but how does one know whether one has got 
enough "various plants?"

>From what I've read the key foundation is the ratio of calcium and 
>magnesium, that these control the availability of all other minerals.  From 
>Julius Ruechel's book "Grass-Fed Cattle: How to Produce and Market Natural 
>Beef" (pgs. 168-169) he writes:

   Soil fertility is controlled not by individual minerals in the soil, but 
by the overall balance or ratio of minerals. A colloid is the smallest soil 
particle, made up of either clay minerals or organic matter. It is like a 
little wafer that attracts and holds mineral ions through electrical charges. 
(Mineral ions, also called cations, are nonorganic soil elements - calcium, 
magnesium, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, sulfur, copper, zinc, and 
so forth - that have acquired an electrical charge.) This is essentially how 
soil nutrients are stored in the soil. Each mineral element represents a 
certain percentage of the available sites (called base saturation) on each 
colloid.

   The plant draws nutrients from the colloid through its own electrical 
charges in the roots and not acids. When the balance of elements is correct, 
the plant is able to access each nutrient according to its needs. If the 
ratio of mineral ions on the colloid is incorrect, the interaction of 
electrical charges among the various minerals ions will cause some elements 
to be bound more tightly to the colloid while others are held more loosely, 
making it difficult for the plant to access the correct proportion of 
minerals.

---

Yes, balance is key!


-Mark Nagel
Everett, WA


Aug 23, 2010 07:09:08 PM, livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

>
>The first catch as I see it is they say there are 60-some key elements used 
>by plant growth. No test can be done for all of them even if anyone could 
>afford 
>it, not to mention the problem of adding same to the soil in question, and 
>conjugated 
>in forms plants can use. And I have yet to see any significant evidence of 
>some 
>key elements missing in well-composted and amended soil. Variety is a simple 
>thing; 
>the Rodales and other organic writers have long urged incorporating plant 
>matter 
>from various plants rather than just a single plant source. 
>
>We have no way of knowing precisely what elements we're "exporting" 
>by removing what we grow off the farm. Or in exactly what quantities. How 
>much selenium 
>should we spread per acre? Or sulfur? At what cost?
>
>But the biggest problem of all is not about periodic table elements at all. 
>Recent studies have shown us that plant roots can also take up surprisingly 
>complex 
>organic molecules - not just simple elements as long assumed. Would they 
>have this 
>ability if they couldn't make use of such organic compounds directly? So who 
>knows what organic compounds do plants need? What if a soil complete in 
>elements 
>but missing all organic material turns out not to grow things properly? What 
>if 
>they can't develop disease or pest resistance, or drought tolerance? And 
>finally, 
>how do you add or even identify all that plants need? We're pretty deep in 
>the 
>swamp at that point. 
>
>The whole official science of what plants need and what form in what amount 
>is frankly, stuck in the last century. What passes for official soil science 
>is 
>crippled by profit-driven corporations.                                      
>   
>
>
>paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 8/23/2010 at 2:16 PM mdnagel@verizon.net wrote:
>
>>"A variety of organic materials provide everything soil needs."
>>
>>But... what exactly IS a "variety?"  What if that variety doesn't 
>include
>>a key mineral?
>>
>>In general I agree that we've got to adjust to using more basic approaches
>>to caring for soil.  Soil tests, I'm figuring, might help identify
>>deficiencies or excesses _before_ our crops tell us.  If one knows what
>>crops he/she is growing then he/she should have a pretty good idea of what
>>gets exported off the farm and, therefore, what needs to be replaced,
>>which would significantly reduce the need for any outside soil tests.
>>
>>
>>-Mark Nagel
>>Everett, WA
>>
>>
>>Aug 23, 2010 10:22:51 AM, livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I ran into this on a tomato list and I don't like it. It's also 
>a
>>commercial.
>>>
>>>class="parsedLink"
>>target="_blank">
>class="parsedLink" 
>target="_blank">http://www.ag.purdue.edu/counties/marion/Pages/SoilSamplingTesting.aspx
>>>
>>>"To grow good plants, you need good soil. The only way to tell 
>what your 
>>>soil really needs is to take a soil test. Applying too much fertilizer
>>could be 
>>>detrimental to your plants. You could waste money or pollute the
>>environment. Adding 
>>>too little fertilizer or the wrong fertilizer could produce little or 
>no
>>results."
>>>
>>>Apply fertilizer? Hundreds of thousands of organic growers have used
>>natural 
>>>amendments or compost as the Rodale people urged for decades, and
>>indigenous people 
>>>for eons before that. A variety of organic materials provide everything
>>soil needs. 
>>>While soil tests can be useful I think that statement "The only 
>way to
>>tell 
>>>what your soil really needs is to take a soil test" is way over 
>the top.
>>>
>>>
>>>paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>
>>_____