Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[Joan Vibert <joan@windwalkerfarm.com>]

Title: Re: [Livingontheland] Permaculture - Farms for the Future

I have a permaculture design degree based on a two-week course I took in ‘94 from Jerome Osentowski at CRMPI in Basalt, CO.  The course was very empowering and to this day we utilize many of the principles (and many of which were already in practice on our farm).  However, to think that I could return to Kansas and imitate what Jerome was doing at 7 or 8 thousand feet with multiple interns was ludicrous.  And, that’s where the problem arises.  Permaculture should be taught in the same geographical area in which it will be applied by the student.  The biggest obstacle we continue to have, despite all the mulch and weeding in the world, are traveling weed seeds that invade any surface once we turn our backs.  We have yet to find a permaculture-type principle that applies to this situation.  In face, we had a Intro to Permaculture course here in ‘95 and Jerome came and taught it.  He was blown away by the variety, amount, and tenacity of “weeds” that threatened our gardens.

Paul, I think you are very correct when you say that you use what works within your limitations.  This is what we need to pass on when people are walking down our dirt roads for food – what works where you are standing.

Joan 


> From: Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
> Reply-To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing 
> <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:15:04 -0700
> To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Permaculture - Farms for the Future
> 
> 
> I didn't say it couldn't be done; I said it's pointless. At least in arid, 
> treeless areas of NM. You don't happen to know how much money they blew on the 
> permaculture designer and the whole setup, do you. And it took them five 
> years? (I got a bad place, semi-arid, producing for market in one year.) How 
> would that help regular folks trying to make ends meet? What are they supposed 
> to live on in the meantime? Sure it got publicity but that doesn't change the 
> fact it was an incredibly wasteful stunt. Hey, if we can't afford a real place 
> we'll just set up permaculture in the desert! 
> 
> I'm going to file that one in the Bad Ideas folder with communes, papercrete 
> and strawbale. All the things that last just long enough to get an article 
> written about how cool they are.
> 
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 1/17/2010 at 9:34 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> 
>> But people did it in the desert of NM.  Once enough organic matter was  
>> in the sand, a lens of water formed, and supported an oasis, a  
>> Permaculture design that supports the people living on/in it.  These  
>> folks could only afford to buy desert land no one else would buy.   
>> They got a Permaculture designer in, and, five years later, they had  
>> the oasis, and food and water (rain harvest, as I recall).  It's been  
>> featured in a book or two.  It would be beautiful anywhere, but in a  
>> desert, it's stunning.
>> 
>> Geoff Lawton's (Mollison's hand-picked successor) claim to fame is  
>> turning a Jordan desert into date production.
>> See http://permaculture.org.au/2009/12/11/greening-the-desert-ii-final/
>> 
>> These two designs are testaments to Permaculture's restorative power.
>> 
>> But I failed utterly at building a Permaculture market garden (if  
>> that's not an oxymoron) on caliche in Austin.  My beds were not deep  
>> enough to keep spinach taproots out of the caliche.  Spinach does not  
>> like caliche.
>> 
>> Smiles.
>> Tommy
>> 
>> On Jan 17, 2010, at 8:07 PM, Tradingpost wrote:
>> 
>>> Just suggesting growing a forest garden on a dry, treeless plain is  
>>> pointless.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Livingontheland mailing list
>> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Livingontheland mailing list
> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland