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  • From: "Dean" <andeanfx@midrivers.com>
  • To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Get on the inflation escalator/ New Farmers
  • Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:53:24 -0700

Paul, if this was for my benefit you really need to reread the numbers and check it out. Our return is way over inflation. As for the investments it depends on what is invested in and what currency it is in. Dean

Keeping Your Memories Alive while
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----- Original Message ----- From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:59 PM
Subject: [Livingontheland] Get on the inflation escalator/ New Farmers



Well, how to save up and where to buy depends on your situation, doesn't
it. I suggest simply getting a home that comes with a few acres - not
buying land separately. Or a place nobody wants that you can fix up. More'n
one way to skin a cat. Or you can follow the crowd, keep working for
somebody else, go in debt and never get out. Savings accounts and
investments are likely the road to ruin right now, esp when inflation is
running higher than either one. Again, I just suggest self employment in a
field providing necessities of life that no one can do without. Get on the
inflation escalator - not under it. For me, that's food. BTW my house on
one acre is running us $360 mo, no water bill, including taxes and
insurance. Long story, but this isn't about me; it's about what we can do
with what we have.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 12/2/2007 at 11:11 AM Dean wrote:

This has to do mostly with owning vs. renting. I am not anti government
but
I am anti big government which we do have in this country. I don't have
one
problem that I can't handle, that is not caused by government.

If a person does not own his land how does he save money to purchase when
the return on a savings account or other investments are so despicably low

and costs such as food, fuel and medical coverage so high?

If some one else can take something away from "you" do "you" own it? No.
So, if you (please understand "you" means each of us an not anyone
specifically) don't pay your annul rent (property tax) will the land that
you think you own be taken away from you? Yes. If I borrow $1,000 from
my
buddy George and go buy a used car do I own the car? No, George owns the
car because you can't buy anything with something you don't own.
Actually,
this story would be more accurate told as master and servant (slave) as We

the People in this country do not have the status of ownership. Now,
suppose I go out and plunk down two green Ben Franklins for a washer and
dryer (used of course, Paul :-)), do I own that new to me washer and
dryer?
No. Why? Because I didn't own the two green Ben's I thought I bought
them
with. They belong to the Federal Reserve (not part of the government) and

are ONLY LOANED to us through the Federal government. I agree with, I
think
it was Ken, maybe Mitch who commented on not wanting to spend 10 years
improving the ground to have it covered by a mall. That is one of the
drawbacks of "ownership", but if we don't own it anyway how much does it
matter? I don't know. You can buy it with borrowed FRN's (Federal
Reserve
Notes) pay the annual rent and maybe make it through. Personally I think
there is a real high likelihood that there will be enough of an economic
collapse in this country that martial law will be imposed then all bets on

"ownership" are off. Especially regarding those of us who are politically

incorrect. As for having the land covered up by a mall, stay out of the
path of "progress".

What if we look at the money freed up by renting rather then deluding
ourselves into thinking we own anything? It used to be popular to talk of

having a Swiss bank account for keeping the millions I was of course going

to make in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. As the reality was

turning into the Land of the Fee and Home of the Slave I turned to redress

of government. Well, that led to some visits to the very secure places as

well as more SchoolofHardKnocks.edu. Then a couple very significant
things
happened. Both my and my wife's parents were aging and needed help so we
moved from the west coast back to the mountain states. My parents went to
a
retirement home leaving me (and two siblings) .52 acres, Wife's dad didn't

want to do same so we put a (his) new manufactured home on my/our land.
He
didn't trust us enough to sign the house over to us and we didn't trust
him
enough to sign the land over to him. This was in the county so no
building
permit was required and since I didn't own the house there was nothing
built
on my land. Father-in law passed away, leaving the house to my wife. The

county took exception and fined me $50,000, I took exception, sold the
house
and moved. In the mean time I came down with a very horrific (uninsured)
staph infection which left me in a wheel chair on SSI disability and
almost
$400,000 in the red. More than you wanted to know?, for some possibly but

here is a reason, actually a couple reasons to tell you this. First, the
money from the house and land, barely into 6 figures after paying my
brother
and sister-in-law their portion of the land money (their inheritance)
turned
us toward the off shore world.

Since you have read this far I should comment on the hospital bill. We
were
working on paying the outside Dr.'s and not even yet thinking about paying

the hospital. One day I got a call from a gal with the hospital who told
me
if I qualified, one of the pharmaceutical companies would forgive the cost

of a particular medication which they had given me. On a .4 mil bill it
seemed a bit insignificant but when she persisted I asked how many shots
they had given me, 12. Still didn't seem like a lot but then she told me
they were $3,500 each. My sympathy toward the hospital decreased. Had
they
saved my life, yes. Did they almost kill me with their medications, yes.
Actually, I died once but it didn't hold. The interesting thing we
learned
is that if nothing is paid on a hospital bill for one year 90% of it is
picked up by large businesses as tax write-offs. I need to digress a bit
again to something people need to be aware of if they are going to live on

the land in this country. The U.S. Constitution allows for only 3
instance
where the gov. can interfere with the people. Law, equity and admiralty.
Last first, admiralty deals with the high seas where it was extremely
dangers if the crew mutinied so the captain of the vessel was give very
broad powers. Should not apply to us. Law, requires a flesh and blood
damaged party (not a corporation, even the government) who can sit on the
witness stand and testify as to how I damaged then and be cross examined
by
me. Equity, required a contract which I have entered into, knowingly,
voluntarily and intentionally with another person and then not kept my end

of the bargain. The reason I digressed here is simply that if the 10% is

turned over to collection they have no grounds for trying to collect from
you since you have not entered into any sort of agreement with them. Oh,
what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

Feel like I am about as long winded (tough fingered) as Paul.

I am getting close to closing the circle here. Getting back to the money
there are certain things I cannot say, due to non-disclosure statements,
unless on a one to one basis but if one were to go to the web site of the
European banks essentially all of them will have a disclaimer that they
cannot make their, products, as they are called available to citizens of
the
U.S. That gets one's curiosity (and ire) up real quick. However, it
means
just what it says. It does not mean we cannot seek out their products on
our own. There are products which we cannot use while in this country but

there are products which are a whole big bunch better than what we are
offered here. Take for example an account returning 10%, we have some
making considerably more and some less. To figure the return on say
$1,000
put 1000 in the trusty calculator and multiply it times 1.10. The "1"
adds
in the current principle and the ".10" figures the gain on the new
balance.
Do that 12 times for one year, 24 for 2 etc. Why 12, 24 etc.. Because
that
10% is per month not per year. Try 1% per day compounded daily 20 times
per
month as there are roughly 20 business days in a month. Take a minute,
push
some buttons on the calculator, let it soak in.

Back to us. Yes, we are renting. At this time we are in a very nice (has

lots of character) house we "pay" $625.00/month for the use of. We are
living very frugally, not only because that is the way we should live but
because we are making more money from the investment of the remains of the

house money than we have made in many years and do not want to take it
out.
We have a wood stove which is good as it is presently 4 degrees on the
wrong
side of zero. Come spring, (I think it will return) we will, once again,
be
able to plant the small garden space.

Do we own it? No. Are we comfortable? yes. Can we improve it? yes.
Are
we secure? Probably as much as most other people. Are we being left
alone?
yes, we are out of town and there are only 3 houses, one of which is not
occupied, beyond us down the road.

To close the circle; are we going to come out ahead for renting. I don't
know as the fat lady has not yet sung but for now it is getting us ahead
whereas we would have been marking time had we not sold the house.

I hope this helps someone as I am sure it has compounded the confusion of
others, but it needed to be brought out.

Dean





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