Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Dean" <andeanfx@midrivers.com>]

Paul, if this was for my benefit you really need to reread the numbers and 
check it out.  Our return is way over inflation.  As for the investments it 
depends on what is invested in and what currency it is in.  Dean

Keeping Your Memories Alive while
Creating Family Keepsakes
www.scrapbooksupplydepot.com



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:59 PM
Subject: [Livingontheland] Get on the inflation escalator/ New Farmers


> Well, how to save up and where to buy depends on  your situation, doesn't
> it. I suggest simply getting a home that comes with a few acres - not
> buying land separately. Or a place nobody wants that you can fix up. 
> More'n
> one way to skin a cat. Or you can follow the crowd, keep working for
> somebody else, go in debt and never get out. Savings accounts and
> investments are likely the road to ruin right now, esp when inflation is
> running higher than either one. Again, I just suggest self employment in a
> field providing necessities of life that no one can do without. Get on the
> inflation escalator - not under it. For me, that's food.  BTW my house on
> one acre is running us $360 mo, no water bill, including taxes and
> insurance. Long story, but this isn't about me; it's about what we can do
> with what we have.
>
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 12/2/2007 at 11:11 AM Dean wrote:
>
> > This has to do mostly with owning vs. renting.  I am not anti government
> > but
> > I am anti big government which we do have in this country.  I don't have
> > one
> > problem that I can't handle, that is not caused by government.
> >
> > If a person does not own his land how does he save money to purchase when
> > the return on a savings account or other investments are so despicably low
>
> > and costs such as food, fuel and medical coverage so high?
> >
> > If some one else can take something away from "you" do "you" own it?  No.
> > So, if you (please understand "you" means each of us an not anyone
> > specifically) don't pay your annul rent (property tax) will the land that
> > you think you own be taken away from you?  Yes.  If I borrow $1,000 from
> > my
> > buddy George and go buy a used car do I own the car?  No, George owns the
> > car because you can't buy anything with something you don't own.
> > Actually,
> > this story would be more accurate told as master and servant (slave) as We
>
> > the People in this country do not have the status of ownership.  Now,
> > suppose I go out and plunk down two green Ben Franklins for a washer and
> > dryer (used of course, Paul :-)), do I own that new to me washer and
> > dryer?
> > No.  Why?   Because I didn't own the two green Ben's I thought I bought
> > them
> > with.  They belong to the Federal Reserve (not part of the government) and
>
> > are ONLY LOANED to us through the Federal government.  I agree with, I
> > think
> > it was Ken, maybe Mitch who commented on not wanting to spend 10 years
> > improving the ground to have it covered by a mall.  That is one of the
> > drawbacks of "ownership", but if we don't own it anyway how much does it
> > matter?  I don't know.  You can buy it with borrowed FRN's (Federal
> > Reserve
> > Notes) pay the annual rent and maybe make it through.  Personally I think
> > there is a real high likelihood that there will be enough of an economic
> > collapse in this country that martial law will be imposed then all bets on
>
> > "ownership" are off.  Especially regarding those of us who are politically
>
> > incorrect.  As for having the land covered up by a mall, stay out of the
> > path of "progress".
> >
> > What if we look at the money freed up by renting rather then deluding
> > ourselves into thinking we own anything?  It used to be popular to talk of
>
> > having a Swiss bank account for keeping the millions I was of course going
>
> > to make in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.  As the reality was
>
> > turning into the Land of the Fee and Home of the Slave I turned to redress
>
> > of government.  Well, that led to some visits to the very secure places as
>
> > well as more SchoolofHardKnocks.edu.  Then a couple very significant
> > things
> > happened.  Both my and my wife's parents were aging and needed help so we
> > moved from the west coast back to the mountain states.  My parents went to
> > a
> > retirement home leaving me (and two siblings) .52 acres, Wife's dad didn't
>
> > want to do same so we put a (his) new manufactured home on my/our land.
> > He
> > didn't trust us enough to sign the house over to us and we didn't trust
> > him
> > enough to sign the land over to him.  This was in the county so no
> > building
> > permit was required and since I didn't own the house there was nothing
> > built
> > on my land.  Father-in law passed away, leaving the house to my wife.  The
>
> > county took exception and fined me $50,000, I took exception, sold the
> > house
> > and moved.  In the mean time I came down with a very horrific (uninsured)
> > staph infection which left me in a wheel chair on SSI disability and
> > almost
> > $400,000 in the red.  More than you wanted to know?, for some possibly but
>
> > here is a reason, actually a couple reasons to tell you this.  First, the
> > money from the house and land, barely into 6 figures after paying my
> > brother
> > and sister-in-law their portion of the land money (their inheritance)
> > turned
> > us toward the off shore world.
> >
> > Since you have read this far I should comment on the hospital bill.  We
> > were
> > working on paying the outside Dr.'s and not even yet thinking about paying
>
> > the hospital.  One day I got a call from a gal with the hospital who told
> > me
> > if I qualified, one of the pharmaceutical companies would forgive the cost
>
> > of a particular medication which they had given me.  On a .4 mil bill it
> > seemed a bit insignificant but when she persisted I asked how many shots
> > they had given me, 12.  Still didn't seem like a lot but then she told me
> > they were $3,500 each.  My sympathy toward the hospital decreased.  Had
> > they
> > saved my life, yes.  Did they almost kill me with their medications, yes.
> > Actually, I died once but it didn't hold.  The interesting thing we
> > learned
> > is that if nothing is paid on a hospital bill for one year 90% of it is
> > picked up by large businesses as tax write-offs.  I need to digress a bit
> > again to something people need to be aware of if they are going to live on
>
> > the land in this country.  The U.S. Constitution allows for only 3
> > instance
> > where the gov. can interfere with the people.  Law, equity and admiralty.
> > Last first, admiralty deals with the high seas where it was extremely
> > dangers if the crew mutinied so the captain of the vessel was give very
> > broad powers. Should not apply to us.  Law, requires a flesh and blood
> > damaged party (not a corporation, even the government) who can sit on the
> > witness stand and testify as to how I damaged then and be cross examined
> > by
> > me.  Equity, required a contract which I have entered into, knowingly,
> > voluntarily and intentionally with another person and then not kept my end
>
> > of the bargain.   The reason I digressed here is simply that if the 10% is
>
> > turned over to collection they have no grounds for trying to collect from
> > you since you have not entered into any sort of agreement with them.  Oh,
> > what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
> >
> > Feel like I am about as long winded (tough fingered) as Paul.
> >
> > I am getting close to closing the circle here. Getting back to the money
> > there are certain things I cannot say, due to non-disclosure statements,
> > unless on a one to one basis but if one were to go to the web site of the
> > European banks essentially all of them will have a disclaimer that they
> > cannot make their, products, as they are called available to citizens of
> > the
> > U.S.  That gets one's curiosity (and ire) up real quick.  However, it
> > means
> > just what it says.  It does not mean we cannot seek out their products on
> > our own.  There are products which we cannot use while in this country but
>
> > there are products which are a whole big bunch better than what we are
> > offered here.  Take for example an account returning 10%, we have some
> > making considerably more and some less.  To figure the return on say
> > $1,000
> > put 1000 in the trusty calculator and multiply it times 1.10.  The "1"
> > adds
> > in the current principle and the ".10" figures the gain on the new
> > balance.
> > Do that 12 times for one year, 24 for 2 etc.  Why 12, 24 etc..  Because
> > that
> > 10% is per month not per year.  Try 1% per day compounded daily 20 times
> > per
> > month as there are roughly 20 business days in a month.  Take a minute,
> > push
> > some buttons on the calculator, let it soak in.
> >
> > Back to us.  Yes, we are renting.  At this time we are in a very nice (has
>
> > lots of character) house we "pay" $625.00/month for the use of.  We are
> > living very frugally, not only because that is the way we should live but
> > because we are making more money from the investment of the remains of the
>
> > house money than we have made in many years and do not want to take it
> > out.
> > We have a wood stove which is good as it is presently 4 degrees on the
> > wrong
> > side of zero.  Come spring, (I think it will return) we will, once again,
> > be
> > able to plant the small garden space.
> >
> > Do we own it?  No.  Are we comfortable? yes.  Can we improve it?  yes.
> > Are
> > we secure?  Probably as much as most other people.  Are we being left
> > alone?
> > yes, we are out of town and there are only 3 houses, one of which is not
> > occupied, beyond us down the road.
> >
> > To close the circle; are we going to come out ahead for renting.  I don't
> > know as the fat lady has not yet sung but for now it is getting us ahead
> > whereas we would have been marking time had we not sold the house.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone as I am sure it has compounded the confusion of
> > others, but it needed to be brought out.
> >
> > Dean
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Livingontheland mailing list
> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1164 - Release Date: 
> 12/2/2007 11:30 AM