Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>]

Of course we can learn from books, websites, etc. Maybe I should have
worded my original question differently. IF we intend to save any of our
resource base for our children and grandchildren, is there any other way
but intensive organic no-till? Is there any other answer to soil and water
depletion and declining productivity? 

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/3/2007 at 2:57 PM mtncats wrote:

>I had a slightly different take.  Everything that's worked for me came
>from what I'd read.  The hands-on experiences were something I needed to
>unlearn, whether growing food or building a house.  Depends on your
>teacher.
>   
>  From this list, Harvey convinced me that putting a cover over my fall
>greens was worth the small effort.  Was it ever!  Snow on the ground and
>I've got a bumper crop of arugula and cilantro.  Growing better than I'd
>ever dreamed.  He also told me to get a copy of Eliot Coleman's
>"Four-Season Harvest".  Another fine idea.  As was a simplified method of
>composting (low temp) I learned on another list.
>   
>  My no-till, approaching permaculture, came from this list.  Often great
>reading.  Including reading about things I haven't (yet) done.
>   
>  Even our passive heating/cooling system house came out of a book.  Sure
>is nice to be petroleum-free for creature comforts.  Just today (cold and
>getting much colder) got the attention of two individuals about to
>undertake new house planning.
>   
>  May very well not apply to all, but what I've read changed my life for
>the better, far beyond what anyone taught me.  And made me a better
>citizen.  Now, maybe if I'd attended one of those expensive seminars... 
>I've done better with reading.  And now do some teaching.  
>   
>  Tom (in central Va) 
>
>TradingPostPaul <tradingpost@riseup.net> wrote:
>  
>Think you've got a point there. Which might explain why people from those
>$800 permaculture seminars don't grow anything themselves. Nothing in
>school or college taught me any do-it- yourself skills. Not even high
>school FFA, which is never about food gardening. 
>
>I doubt we'll get many farmers to convert to organic, intensive no-till,
>and I really doubt we'll get many overeducated non-farmers to either. 
>
>Yet I've read the typical farmer's return on investment today is about 2%.
>You get a better return on a savings account. The way they farm we have at
>best 50 years of topsoil left, and less for irrigation water. Going broke
>and destroying what's left of productive soil. Technology can't make more
>soil and water. But organic, intensive no-till effectively reverses the
>damages and makes it profitable to stay on the farm. But it's probably too
>late. I don't know how to tell my kids and grandkids. 
>
>paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>On 2/3/2007 at 3:31 PM Laurie Ann Powell wrote:
>
>>My guess, Paul, is that the real misconception is the Western idea that
>>behavior can be "taught" or "learned" from books, tapes, seminars or
>>phone calls, and then acted on.
>>
>>Modeling, live-in apprenticeships, and daily life are the only ways that
>>"work" for any skill that requires applying knowledge in a physical way.
>>
>>Which is why we live among a generation of people who only know how to
>>teach or learn - but not know how to DO anything they teach or learn. 12
>>years of public education prepares you to be a teacher, student,
>>factory worker or a couch potato. Not a farmer. Farming with a farmer
>>teaches you to be a farmer.
>>
>>So, it's not that I don't want to do no-till or send out my soil sample
>>or remediate my pasture. But only what I learned living at Carrie's
>>house and doing her chores with her seems to really get done at my
>>house! 
>>
>>Laurie Ann
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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