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["Lynda" <lurine AT com-pair.net>]

O.K., to refresh my memory, I went and looked it up in my old books because 
the description you've given confused my aged mommy brain cells.  And this 
is what is in my books which is why I go along with the whole "toxic" 
premise:

"Hydrogenated fats are oils that have been processed through a chemical 
hardening method to achieve increased plasticity (stiffness) of the liquid 
oils at room temperature.  Partial hydrogenation (brush hydrogenation) 
hardens oils but does not make them fully solid.  Full hydrogenation 
requires complete conversion of a liquid oil into a solid fat at room 
temperature (72 degrees F).  A fully hydrogenated oil has natural saturated 
fats left intact and all the remaining mono- and polyunsaturated fatty acids 
become converted from their fluid configuration to a full trans fat rigid 
configuration.  The process is as follows:

1   High heat
2.  A metal catalyst such as nickel, zinc, copper or other reactive metals
3.  Hydrogen gas

The metals are used to react with the hydrogen gas which is bubbled up 
through the mixture.  The metals catlyze the hydrogen and carbon atoms and 
convert the fatty acids by flipping one of the attached hydrogen molecules 
and rotating it half the diameter of the carbon chain.

This effectively creates a new molecular shape resulting in a stiffer or 
more rigid material, hence the change from a liquid to a semi-solid or solid 
substance.  This new shape stiffens with the hydrogenation process making 
the oil behave more like a saturated fat (such as coconut fat which is 92% 
saturation and solid at room temperature).

Trans fats are the result of this reaction.

Partial hydrogenation, or "brush hydrogenation" is a minimal conversion step 
which only offers a small degree of reaction by hydrogenation.  Brush 
hydrogenation increases stability for volatile fatty acids like the omega 3 
(alpha-linolenic) and omega 6 (linoleic) poluunsatgurated oils.  Most 
commercial salad dressing oils, such as soybean oil, have been brush 
hydrogenated.

Hydrogenation raises the melting point of the fat and retards rancidity 
(which is why they are doing it to lard).

Now, on to Trans Fatty Acids.  They are synthetic saturated fats which is 
why they are a problem  Most of them are man-made although you can find them 
naturally in cow's milk that has up to 14% butter fat.  They also occur in 
vegetable fats through hydrogenation.

Now, if you like to look at pictures of those cutesy molecule ladder 
thingys, hydrogen molecules attach at the center of the fatty acid carbon 
chain flips 180 degrees which straigtens out the natural curve or kink in 
the typical cis-configured fat.  That's why the "trans" label (cis-shape 
chmically alters to a trans configuration).

So, bottomline is that saturated fats are natural and trans fats are 
chemically produced.

The best way to look at saturated vs. trans in the equation of good vs. bad 
fats is the old Micky D's French fries.  The fries used to be cooked in 
tallow.  Tallow is a saturated fat.  Now the fries are cooked in a partially 
hydrogenated fat or a hydrogenated fat (depends on the individual M D's). 
Probably because the word "saturated," folks are inclined (my theory and not 
scientifically proven <g>) folks are inclined to think that things cooked in 
"saturated" fats are greaser and this is not the case.  For whatever reason, 
cooking in lard or tallow is not as greasy (retained oils) as cooking in 
hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils.  30% or more less retained oils 
(depending on the quality, heat and age of the fryer fats).

Lynda
Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers 
so we can identify their corporate sponsors.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>

> (I started this post as a draft earlier this evening-kind of irrelevant
> now, but I'm posting it anyway since I spent some time comparing the
> products.)
>
> A saturated fat molecule is a hydrogenated fat molecule.  It is the
> same.  Unsaturated means there is a double or triple bond somewhere,
> polyunsaturated means several double bonds in the molecule.  As the
> bonds break, the molecule is hydrogenated and it is saturated when there
> are no double or triple bonds left to break.  So, granted, Spectrum has
> 0 trans fat vs. Crisco's 1.5 g, BUT, Crisco only has 3 g of saturated
> fat compared to 6 g of saturated fat in the Spectrum.  Spectrum's Palm
> oil is a saturated fat.
>
> Spectrum has 3 grams more saturated fat
>
> Crisco has 1.5 grams more trans fat (Wikipedia has a decent little
> article to explain what trans means in case you have forgotten your
> chemistry<g>) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_isomerism
>
> Both products have 7 grams of 'good' fat
>
> Crisco has 11.5 g total vs. Spectrum's 13 g total
>
> Cathy, I was ROTFLMAO on your toxic comment...
>
> I had some chemistry related questions about palm oil, which I answered
> for myself with a little research, but I thought some of you might be
> interested in the following:
>
> Oils are by definition, liquid, and to make them solid, i.e. to make
> them into fats, you hydrogenate them, and in that process, you create
> trans fats...that's why processed foods like margarine and the Crisco
> shortening above have trans fats-now that lard is hydrogenated to keep
> it solid at room temp, it has trans fats, too, but once upon a time it
> was 'only' saturated fat.
> Palm oil is unique.  In the heat of the tropics, where it is produced,
> it is liquid.  Once it is transported to cooler latitudes, it cools and
> then becomes solid and is then called palm fat.  Basically, at just the
> right temperature, it is both part oil and part fat, part solid and part
> liquid.  You can separate out the solid and that becomes your
> 'shortening', and of course, it is still palm oil, so it can be labeled
> as such.  It doesn't need to be hydrogenated, therefore it doesn't have
> the trans fats that other processed fats have.
>
> So, I guess in light of all of this, the Spectrum shortening comes in
> equal to Crisco in the fat department, but when you consider all the
> factors, like GMO foods, and organic quality ingredients, the Spectrum
> shortening made from palm oil wins hands down.
>
> I'm glad so many of you recommend this company.  As soon as I can, I
> plan to order some of their 'butter' spreads.  I don't use shortening
> often enough to justify the expense-if I could find it in a store it
> might be different though.
>
> Bev
>
>
>
> Lynda wrote:
> > Trans fat and hydrogenated are the answer.  They're the bad guys, or
> > so "they" say.  I don't like the idea of playing games with stuff and
> >  it's why I won't buy lard anymore either since it is now
> > hydrogenated.  I also don't like soybeans and cottonseed (high in
> > pesticides, GMOs, etc.).  So, for most things I simply use butter.
> > Once in a blue I'll get an urge to make something with shortning and
> > that's when I buy the Spectrum.
> >
> > Lynda Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like
> > NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors. ----- 
> > Original Message ----- From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
> >
> > > The concern here is heart healthiness... I like comparing products.
> > >  I compared my mayo to theirs,,,,mine actually came up better, and
> > > Lynda, I am a dyed in the wool Dukes (Sauers) mayo person. MMMMM...
> > >
> > >
> > > The shortening...
> > >
> > > I'm comparing it to Butter flavored Crisco from my kitchen...
> > >
> > > Crisco label
> > >
> > > Cal 110  Fat Cal 110 Total fat 12g Sat fat 3g Trans Fat 1.5g
> > > Polyunsat fat 3g Monounsat fat 4g Vit A 4% from addition of Beta
> > > Carotene in butter flavored Vit E 15%
> > >
> > > Partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil
> > >
> > > Manufactured by JM Smucker Co.
> > >
> > > Smuckers also apparently has a Smucker's Baking Healthy product
> > > that is part oil and part shortening, but I haven't found the info
> > > on that yet...should be an interesting comparison.
> > > -------------------------------------------------------- Spectrum
> > > Nutritional Info
> > >
> > > Cal 110   Fat cal 110 Fat 13 Sat 6 Trans Fat 0g Poly 2g Mono 5g
> > > Chol
> > >
> > > No Beta carotene therefore no Vit A or Vit E??? Palm oil is usually
> > >  red because of beta carotene, and contains tocotrienal, so I do
> > > not understand why this product would not contain Vit A or Vit E?
> > > Why would they remove those chemicals?
> > >
> > > Organic palm oil
> > >
> > > manufactured Spectrum Organics $7 for 24 oz
> >
> > > A couple of years ago there was something about palm oil
> > > plantations and rainforest destruction...can't remember the
> > > details, but I recall that the loss of rainforests was blamed on
> > > the US love of fried foods.
> > >
> > > I don't know what I am missing, but this shortening doesn't seem
> > > healthier to me.
> >
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> --
> "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public
> debt  should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered
> and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed
> lest Rome become bankrupt.  People must again learn to work, instead of
> living on public assistance."
>
> --Cicero, 55 BC
> http://erthnsky.blogspot.com/
>
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