Homestead mailing list

[bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

Maybe you are right; but in my opinion, you aren't.  AG is just another man 
who made huge mistakes.  Everything in the first , intellectual, part of his 
life, has been contradicted by the second part of his life.  I'm sure he 
would like to re-write but history has already been.............----

-------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Thought this list would appreciate this!
> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com
> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:15 AM
> :-) LOL  I almost always get a similar response. 
> (Actually, a few economists I've sent that to
> surprisingly agreed.. 99% of people do not...)
>  
> Course if one was really pissed off that Objectivism
> wasn't adopted, and the final death blow to gold was
> delivered in the early 70s when one was still young...
> could one have set out on a multi-decade mission to maneuver
> oneself into attempting to become the Fed Chair?
>  
>  
> Warning: most of the time I do not go back and check
> spelling, and I am fast on a keyboard, so sometimes the
> words that are typed are not the words in my head... LOL, as
> in maybe the first letter of the word matches and the rest
> doesn't come close.  I've also long ago gotten out
> of the habit of trying to be gramatically correct - lazy in
> exchange for opting for a more rapid exchange of ideas. 
> That is BAD, I know as sometimes ideas are not
> conveyed properly.
>  
> Again, AG didn't have to come up with the ideas, only
> be in a position to come up with enough Greenspeak to
> endorse corrupt ideas.  To what end?  In part, to teach
> that gold is money.  Or that whatever unit of exchange that
> is chosen as a standard among all men should not be diluted,
> as there are consequences of that.
>  
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 12/11/08, bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> From: bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Thought this list would appreciate
> this!
> To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:38 AM
> 
> You write fast and well.  I didn't notice a single
> grammatical mistake.  My
> skill set is not so keen.  I didn't mean to imply Rand
> was rong, just that
> we are headed in the wrong dirwection as might have been
> scenario in AS as
> predictor.  I believe you make too credit for Mr.
> Greenspan.  T.S. Eliot (East
> Coker) wrote:
>  
> "Do not let me hear
> Of the wisdom of old men, but rather of their folly,
> Their fear of fear and frenzy, their fear of possession,
> Of belonging to another, or to others, or to God."
> 
> I believe Greenspan became more foolish in his old age
> rather than more wise;
> which, in my opinion, happens more often than we care to
> admit.  Those of us who
> are fortunate will all grow old, but some of us will
> entertain folly more than
> wisdom , as we age.  Just as some old men always
> have...............
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Homestead] Thought this list would
> appreciate this!
> > To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:20 PM
> > Bob,
> >  
> > Someone wrote:  <<<Ironically, one of
> Rand’s
> > philosophical devotees was Alan Greenspan—the man
> who set
> > in motion the exact circumstances described
> > below.>>>
> >  
> >  
> > How often did we hear on TV when Greenspan was in
> office
> > about "the Alan Greenspan Legacy".  Yet not
> one
> > person really thought about what kind of legacy he was
> > leaving.  I did, many years ago.... from way outside
> the
> > box for sure.  
> >  
> > I happen to agree:  "Whenever destroyers appear
> among
> > men, they start by destroying money, for money is
> men’s
> > protection and the base of a moral existence.
> Destroyers
> > seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile
> of
> > paper."  Of course money here in context of when
> this
> > was written, money IS gold, and the gold standard had
> been
> > partially removed.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > Exactly what legacy is Greenspan leaving?   
> >  
> > What clues do we have that are not pumped to us from
> > mainstream media?
> >  
> >  
> > I don't know if many here know some of these
> things,
> > probably do, but I'll state it anyway. 
> >  
> > 1.  Ayn Rand, Greenspan, and Von Mises - all best
> buddies
> > part of Rand's Inner Circle.  
> >  
> > Von Mises/Austrian economic theory, promoted gold
> > standard.  
> > Ayn Rand, gold standard.  
> > Greenspan even wrote a often cited paper on the gold
> > standard.  
> >  
> > 2.  Greenspan was trained in Keynesian (or later
> versions)
> > economics.  When he was first introduced to
> Rand's
> > Inner Circle, he was wishy washy on facts.  He was
> asked if
> > he believed that he in fact actually existed.  He did
> not
> > know for sure, and after a heady discussion finally
> was
> > convinced that he in fact existed (source = Rand's
> > lover, N. Brandon).  Point being that Greenspan
> > wouldn't adopt an idea until he was 100%
> convinced.
> >  
> > 3.  Greenspan (as well as others in the Inner Circle)
> > routinely reviewed draft copies of Atlas Shrugged
> during the
> > 9-10 years it took her to write the book, and
> contributed
> > ideas from time to time.  (source = Rand's lover,
> N.
> > Brandon).   At the end of the book Greenspan was
> convinced
> > that the book would change the world, that people
> would
> > accept the philosophy as truth.  Instead it was
> rejected.
> >  
> > 4.  One of the main characters in the book,
> D'Anconia,
> > talked about his family's legacy - to increase the
> > productive wealth greater than the prior
> > generation(s). However, Francisco D'Anconia set
> out to
> > continue the legacy, as we know he wound up destroying
> the
> > copper rather than have looters have it, and therefore
> > changed his family's legacy.   
> >  
> > Legacy being the key word here - because the word
> Legacy
> > and Greenspan were often mentioned together in the
> media. 
> > However, no mention of what the nature of his legacy
> would
> > be was ever identified,  This is not unlike the
> rumors of
> > D'Anconia being a worthless playboy, often
> mentioned in
> > the media, but never any confirmation.
> >  
> > 5.  Another character in the book, Ragnar
> Danneskjold, a
> > pirate/policeman who steals the wealth (gold) from the
> > world.
> >  
> > 6.  Greenspan clearly wrote the piece on the gold
> standard
> > back in the 60s/70s.  Did he ever change his mind? 
> > Because becoming Chairman of the Federal Reserve would
> imply
> > that he had.  In fact, the media often stated this
> about
> > him, but did he?  Did they every check their
> premises? 
> > When I started actually dissecting Greenspan's
> words,
> > hidden within he continued to promote the gold
> standard. 
> > So I do not believe he abandoned it at all.
> >  
> > 7.  Under Greenspan, we have experienced an
> incredible
> > growth in money supply as he opened up the Easy Al
> money for
> > Wall Street, fueling bubble after bubble.  The
> effects of
> > this are coming at us faster and faster now.  
> >  
> > 8.  Ayn Rand (per Brandon) stated that Greenspan was
> the
> > smartest of the all.  Did she say this lightly?  I
> > don't know, but what I have read about her, she
> seemed
> > to have been very rigid about her opinions, so I think
> not.
> >  
> > 9.  Dr. Robert Stadler in the book rejected pure
> science
> > for working for the government.
> >  
> > 10.  Greenspan (in his book) told us that he remained
> > close friends with Ayn Rand until her death.  
> >  
> > If you wanted to carry out the philosophy espoused by
> Rand
> > - speed up the time table to expose "you can not
> have
> > your cake and eat it too".... in what position
> could
> > you make this happen?
> >  
> > I ask - 
> >  
> > 1)  Is it so ironic Alan Greenspan—"the man
> who set
> > in motion the exact circumstances described
> below".....
> > did Alan Greenspan truly take on the role of Dr.
> Robert
> > Stadler - i.e. sell out Objectivism to work for the
> Federal
> > Reserve, whom  many think is part of the government
> > (including the media).  If so, would Ayn Rand have
> remained
> > close friends with Alan Greenspan until her death?
> >  
> > or 
> >  
> > 2) Did Alan Greenspan take on the roles of Danneskjold
> and
> > D'Anconia - right in front of the entire world....
> and
> > leave a totally different legacy than the media had
> been
> > espousing and may only just now be realizing that his
> legacy
> > isn't exactly what they never stated but alluded
> to?
> >  
> >  
> > If the laster, Greenspan would not have had to invent
> all
> > the crazy economic ideas that came out of Wall Street,
> > etc...... all he would have had to do is endorse them
> and
> > open the fiat money spigots.  
> >  
> > I think ironically - backwardation tells another story
> > about the situation of gold reserves at the COMEX. 
> GATA
> > has long been warning that the gold isn't there, a
> la
> > Fed, who was in charge? Greenspan....
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > Note:  CNBC did an interview with one Julian
> Robertson a
> > few years back.  Robertson's reputation years ago
> was
> > along the lines of Midas Mulligan - everything he
> touched
> > turned to gold.... until suddenly his fund went
> bankrupt. 
> > Robertson came back on the scene a few years back,
> which
> > prompted the interview.  He broke down at one point
> and
> > made a comment something along the lines that there
> were
> > those who has built a walled compound in New Zealand,
> > totally self sufficient, and proclaimed that the world
> was
> > going to be falling apart.... it triggered memories of
> Atlas
> > Shrugged, of course.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > Greenspan in his book informs that the Fed knew
> somewhere
> > in 1999-2001 (I forget the exact year) that a housing
> bubble
> > was in the making, yet they lowered interest rates and
> > fueled it....  Coincidently, in 1998, LTCM nearly
> caused a
> > worldwide systemic risk event.  In the book I read
> about
> > that, there was talk about the seed idea that later
> created
> > the mortgage b.s. that has currently caused a
> worldwise
> > system risk event.  Greenspan was Fed Chair back
> then, and
> > had probably already recognized the insanity of
> that,,, but
> > if your purpose was to act out
> D'Anconia/Danneskjold....
> > lowering interest rates makes a lot of sense.
> >  
> > When I read Greenspans book, I noticed that when he
> talked
> > about other countries, he was direct, logical, etc. 
> Yet
> > when he talked about certain events here, especially
> under
> > him, that there were discrepancies, which was more
> aligned
> > with my musings about Greenspan's true legacy.
> >  
> >  
> > Anyway, that is pretty far out of the box..... or is
> it?
> >  
> > I would like you to think about this for a while
> before
> > responding.  And for those here that follow
> economics, go
> > back and re-think every move that Greenspan made, if
> in
> > fact, his true legacy was that of a very different
> agenda. 
> >     
> > 
> > So many things to me about Greenspan did not make
> sense,
> > until I started thinking about the words
> > "Greenspan's Legacy".
> >  
> >  
> > Also, Bob, why do you call Ayn Rand's direction,
> the
> > wrong direction?  
> > Was it a wrong direction, or a logical outcome?
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, bob ford
> <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks Jeanne:  Ayn Rand had the below to say about
> > society, money, laws, etc.;
> > see how much it appears that we may be headed in her
> wrong
> > direction :
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
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