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[bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

No Susan, you mis-understood me.  I was simply questioning, out loud, several 
of the premises on the list, today, regarding this subject.  I just can't 
think of a 'civilization, in history, that didn't fight, war, whatever.  I 
like the amish, and the mennonites, and the really conservative christians 
(4-square ?) that won't go to war, or fight for any reason. 

 I also like the cultures of the people who do go to war.  I think biology 
has much to do with us fighting  --- 'primates fight', period, is the way I 
look at it.  Maybe one day, we will eveolve to the point that we are all like 
the Amish or whatever, and don't war anymore.  We certainly aren't there, 
yet. 

 * Note, I'm not as educated on the history of the Amish as you, I thought 
they considered themselves "German".  German history is filled with great 
warriors.  I don't know much about the Swiss ?  They ski, and make cheese and 
watches and chocalate; and guard the Pope, I don't really know if they have 
ever been dominant

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--- On Wed, 12/3/08, sjc <indexer AT fairpoint.net> wrote:

> From: sjc <indexer AT fairpoint.net>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] It's almost over
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 2:06 PM
> > Besides, Buddhists have never been a major power in
> modern times (though , as I said they still will fight), if
> they were a power in Ancient times, it would have been in
> China, where the history of War is very long.
> >   
> Bob, do you mean an entity must be a major power to qualify
> as 
> peaceful?  Or what?  I'm not getting your argument....
> > The Amish don't fight, but the people from whom
> they came sure as hell did................
> >   
> ??? The Swiss?  Not much known as aggressors or big
> fighters, to my 
> knowledge, although they have been known to defend.....The
> Amish groups 
> all share the common history that started with Swiss Ulrich
> Zwingli in 
> the mid 1500s, continued with Conrad Grebel, also Swiss,
> continues 
> through Jakob Amman, also Swiss, and continues throughout
> Europe as they 
> were rejected and moved from pillar to post over the
> ensuing years, 
> until now they exist all over the world. 
> 
> And if a population comes from an aggressive history, then
> reforms 
> itself to be something non-aggressive, is it less valid as
> a peaceful 
> population, simply because its roots were not peaceful? 
> That's some 
> murky thinking, it seems, in that it says we humans
> can't execute change 
> in our thinking and then change behavior......in that case,
> I guess we 
> would need to say that a lot of our efforts are doomed. 
> And it leaves 
> wanting a peaceful population that wars over territory and
> then becomes 
> aggressive...if one can't change, can the other?
> 
> SJ
> 
> 
> 
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