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  • From: "Jeanne Driese" <jeanne13 AT earthlink.net>
  • To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Heinlein, was SE PA going
  • Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:07:22 -0500

Bev,
Well I never even thought of being above the law as part of being free or
sovereign! Just am assuming that we on this list probably have higher
standards than most.
But if you have goats milk and I want to buy some, by the law I can't. But
If you and I agree to do this I really believe that is our right.
Jeanne
tnhillwoman
North East TN zone 6
----- Original Message -----
From: EarthNSky
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Heinlein, was SE PA going


I wrote something on this a minute ago, then deleted it, then wrote
again, then deleted it again. Ok, so I am writing this time...Call this,
the other side of the coin, the side less obvious.
Yes, it does make sense in one light, but not in another light. It
could even be some of what is wrong with society, that as long as people
think they can, they will. I know this is talking about breaking rules,
but it can be extended to people.

In the old days, when 99% of all people were Christian(no Sikhs,
Hindus, etc), the way a person was held "morally responsible" was by his
community of like believers. Today, not only it is rare to find a 'like
believer', you can't find a community that would agree on what is
morally responsible. Look at the recent posts on Greenpeace and Sea
Shepherd as an example. Two orgs with the same goal, and yet, they
differ on responsibility. This list is another, yet different
example...people have similar interests, but no leadership, no
moderation, you can write anything here and there is no moral consequence.

There is no longer banishment, scarlet letters, social pariahs, etc. and
while you can still be excommunicated, it just doesn't hold the same
punch. The individual is left on his own. This "I am free to do as I
please" mentality becomes anarchy and lawlessness. I'd bet that Bill
Ayers and Ted Stevens love that quote-they, too, have that mentality
that I can do whatever I want...I'm free..I can break rules,
and only I am morally responsible. The problem is, that some people
have the audacity<g> to have no morals. When Ayers can sit back and say
that his actions never hurt anyone(even if you believe him, I think you
could make a case that they surely negatively affected Obama's campaign
aides..lol), when Stevens, after being convicted of a felony, can refuse
to resign then you begin to see the other side of this. Pick a
controversial story in the political arena and you should see the other
side.
Now Gene, I am not saying you are like this. I know you are not. I
know you are a responsible human being from a generation that truly does
hold itself to a higher moral standard-but not everyone is like you.
What I am saying is that to believe this quote as a mantra is dangerous
thinking. There will be an element of society(ever growing, ever
increasing element since most people have no community to moderate their
behavior) who believes they are more than sovereign, they will believe
they are above the law. That is the danger. Also, that is not tolerance.
I like Heinlein, and even quote him myself occasionally. Before you
jump on me for my seemingly contrary post, I ask you to consider
this...knowing that Heinlein was a great satirist and often wrote about
social condition, politics and such, don't you think it is possible that
his quote reflects my view _and_ yours-that we were intended to think
about our 'free actions' and where it all might lead us in a futuristic
world? I think it is a lot more complex that just being a sovereign being.

Here's another quote from someone...
Freedom ain't free.

Bev


Gene GeRue wrote:
>> " I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them
>> tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break
>> them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible
>> for everything I do."
>
> This is some of what I mean when I say that we are sovereign beings.


--
“Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to
hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda
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