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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Tracy J wrote:
> Wow.  You guys are really kind of hard core on this topic.  I suppose
>  that we could look down our noses at people who don't garden or 
> people who use Starbucks as their coffee pot.

I don't look down on people who can't garden.
I do think people who visit Starbucks every morning on their way to work
are wasteful/not frugal when they could have a cup of joe at home.
Sorry, but I understand that coffee at Starbucks is like $4 a cup (I've
never been there, I don't think...I've only been to one coffee shop in
my entire life..hey Tammy in Colorado, did we meet at a Starbucks or
another coffee shop?)  I don't suppose there's anything wrong with
visiting Starbucks on occasion, but buying joe at Starbucks instead of
making it at home, well, that's a bit too "rich" for my blood.


 I mean, doesn't everyone have a big yard to
> grow most of their food?  Doesn't everyone live in a neighborhood 
> zoned for agriculture so they can raise eggs/milk/meat?

It's not about that, it's about an attitude of doing for yourself vs. an
attitude of throwing up your hands and expecting others to do for you.
It's about learning skills and doing whatever it takes to reduce your
dependency on commercially available stuff.  Plenty of folks homestead
in the city...many places have community gardens, and even if that's not
available, there's farmer's markets, CSA's and other ways to get
wholesome foods without having a big yard.  I used to live on less than
1/3 of an acre, but I had a friend with garden space.  What I did not
grow in containers, I planted in her garden. I couldn't have animals,
but I worked to find another place, here, where I could have animals,
and while I lived in the city, the folks here educated me on raising
critters and living sustainably.

> I guess those people that have been born, raised, and work (or not 
> work) in the inner cities are just whiners when they are told by the 
> government that they can live just fine by using the governments 
> "Thrifty Plan" that figures you can go to the supermarket to buy your
>  food and provide well balanced, nutritious meals for $3.66 a day,
> per person, in a family of four with an income of $20,000 a year.
> Not to mention living in areas that charge a hell of a lot more for 
> groceries than the big box grocery stores in the 'Burbs.

Why did they ask the government in the first place?  IMO, people make
choices everyday, you know, personal responsibility.  No, many who live
in conditions such as what you describe are looking for a convenient
life...one where the government sends them a check every month, and that
is a vicious cycle of dependence.  It IS possible to get off the mouse
wheel and out of the rat race, but it takes a lot of hard work and
sacrifice.  It's not easy, but it can be done.
> Granted, the majority of people in this country are overweight and 
> eat poorly.  People probably go out to eat at McDonald's way too 
> often, too. But lets tell the people who really are hungry to go 
> dumpster diving for their food.  It's still good.  Not too moldy and 
> the extra penicillin probably wouldn't hurt them anyway if it was.

It's an option...
There's no reason for true hunger in this culture.  What people have to
get over is pride.  For example, old people couldn't physically dumpster
dive if they wanted to, but in many cases, their pride gets in the way
and they refuse programs like Meals on Wheels or community outreach
charities.

> Take it from someone who has experienced large unwanted weight lose 
> because of no money and who has dumpster dived to feed herself and 
> her kid.  It isn't very fun to be really and truly hungry.  To go for
>  days until the garden has something that has ripened enough to eat. 
> And then, wait until the kid has eaten enough so that you can maybe 
> get something off his plate. It is something that I will never 
> forget.  But I was lucky.  I had a 1/2 acre of land and a garden. 
> Otherwise, there would have been much more begging and dumpster 
> diving because in those days, there were no food shelves and the 
> Mission charged 50 cents per meal and I didn't have even that much 
> money to give.
>
> Tracy Julian in East North-Central Minnesota

I'm sorry to hear about your hard times, but apparently things have
changed for you.  Somehow, you pulled yourself up and changed your life.
 You are here, subscribed to this list, so you obviously value
frugalness and hard work.  I prefer to think that it was your attitude
and work ethnic, your determination, that pulled you out of your
despair, and NOT luck.
Bad things happen, but each is a learning experience and makes us
realize our values.

Bev


--
BevanRon of EarthNSky Farm   NW Georgia USDA Zone 7
34.498N 85.076W    Bev is Earth, Ron is Sky