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[Gene GeRue <genegerue AT ruralize.com>]

> I have two considerations for making the moat only 3 or 4 feet wide.
> First, there is an issue of garden space.  My closet permanent raised
> bed is 8 feet inside the 8 ft perimeter fence.  I want to leave enough
> room between the interior fence and the bed to be able to push a large
> wheelbarrow through and mow if need be.  That dictates that the widest
> moat I could entertain would be about 4 feet across.

Could you put the second fence on the outside of the tall fence? When 
you say "permanent" do you mean, like, stone walls? Can the bed be 
moved? What is most permanent, the tall fence or the beds?

How much total square footage do you have inside the tall fence for 
garden space?

> My second consideration is not what the grasshoppers can do, but what
> the hawks, eagles, and owls will do.  I have lost quite a few birds to
> hawks and golden eagles.  The hawks are ever present; the eagles come
> and go depending on the year.  This year looks to be an 'eagle' year as
> I have seen 3 already.  Since the moat is uncovered, I was hoping that
> the smaller width would discourage swooping predators.

The shorter fence does not have to be plumb. If you build it leaning 
toward the tall fence, the open area above is restricted. This would 
also discourage pullets from flying out. You could also pound short 
pieces of rebar into the ground opposite the tall fence posts, slip 
three-quarter PVC pipe over that and make an arch to the tall fence, 
putting the PVC onto long spikes pounded into the posts, then just 
lay poultry mesh over that and wire it to the PVC to keep it in 
place. No hens flying out; no raptors flying in.

> In deer
> > country, the moat at six feet wide is designed to intimidate a deer
> > from making the leap. I suspect Wonder Woman wants the eight-foot
> > fence to stop the deer.
>
> LOL, yup, when we replaced the fencing, I went back to the 8 footer
> because I am sticking with what works.
>
>   Two six-footers will do the deed if the width
> > is six feet.
>
> Unless I bite the bullet and go buy some 6 foot dog fencing, I think
> it's too late for me to do that.
>
> > All that said, the square footage of a successful chicken moat
> > depends on the size of the flock. If the poultry patrol is
> > insufficient in number to keep the weeds gone, the moat becomes
> > ineffective as a clean edge for the garden. It does keep the hens
> > happy. And happy hens are half a homestead made. So if you, like
> > most, would rather experiment with your own design, why just charge
> > on! Don't say I didn't warn you.
>
> In this case, it's less about experimentation than trying to make do
> with what I have.  If I go with my original plan of a 3 foot moat around
> the garden, that will give me around 980 square feet of moat, not
> including the covered 12x8 chain link dog kennel(which will most likely
> be used for turkeys and not chickens in the future) and the coop which
> will mostly be for roosting and laying eggs.  At present, I have 25 2
> month old pullets and 8 hens, a rooster, and maybe 8 or 9 chicks on the
> way.  I've got a broody barred rock whose eggs should hatch later this
> week if I can keep the snakes out of there.  So basically, counting a
> good hatch, I should have 40 birds isolated in about 1000 square feet of
> total space, which is 25 square feet per bird...
>
> More thoughts??

That will make for a very clean moat unless it is covered with kudzu. 
Is this your ideal flock size? Can you expand the garden in any 
direction? Gardens and moats can be of any configuration.

Before we continue wrestling with this design dilemma, let everyone 
contemplate Bev's typical 
do-with-what-you-have-as-you-need-it-and-can-afford-it approach. Not 
typical only to her but to most. When we start homesteading we don't 
know how many tomatoes, trees, birds, lambs or horses we will 
ultimately have. But, if space allows, each garden, pen or pasture 
should be designed for flexibility of expansion or contraction. Hell 
of a lot easier to it right than to do it over and sure as hell 
better to not have to compromise. So make a master plan and commit it 
to paper. Easy to erase and redraw. Hard to move raised beds, 
buildings or stone walls.