Kata Markon

["Rikki E. Watts" <rwatts AT interchange.ubc.ca>]

Jack,

I'm not sure of the implications of your point, but given what quote of me,
it seems that you might be suggesting that these examples will help Joe's
case.  If I've misunderstood, apologies.

However, I think we've been around this one before, if not on this list, at
least on Xlist.  I'm not sure what you mean by aggadic midrash (I presume as
opposed to halakah), but even Michael Goulder has had to retract his claim
that the gospels are midrash.  See e.g. Alexander, P. S., "Midrash and the
Gospels" in C. M. Tuckett, ed., Synoptic Studies(Sheffield: JOST, 1984)
1-18. According to the specialists they are clearly not.

The TR is a good example, but are you suggesting that the events of his life
were created in order to show that scripture was fulfilled?  I can't see any
evidence of this. Rather they appear to be reflecting on the significance of
TR's history in the light of the scripture. I suggest that is probably what
the gospel writers are doing to.  Of course Qumran's pesherim, as found in
the Habakkuk commentary, is without parallel in the NT, so one needs to be
careful in applying this too closely.  Nevertheless, even here they are
reflecting on a community and its history in the light of scripture.  There
is, as far as I can see, no sign of them having creatively rewritten =
invented events in order to demonstrate the fulfillment of scripture.
Granted this idea has had free flow in biblical studies for over a century,
but the more I think about it the more bizarre the notion seems.

If it is so important to have history line up with scripture, that can only
be because scripture takes history seriously. But if scripture takes history
seriously then what's to be gained by inventing events?  This makes little
sense to me.

I think you are right however in seeing in Mark the migration of Jewish oral
tradition into a Hellenistic literary form.  But don't forget that Jesus,
the oral tradition, and the worldview in which it is set is all Jewish. And
given Bailey's work on orality in that setting it seems even less likely
that invention or creativity of the kind Joe hypothesizes would be
tolerated. 

Regards,
Rikk

on 3/16/01 8:27 AM, Jack Kilmon at jkilmon AT historian.net wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rikki E. Watts" <rwatts AT interchange.ubc.ca>
> To: "Kata Markon" <gmark AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:44 PM
> Subject: [gmark] Re: Gospel Creation
> 
> 
>> So let me ask you again, can you cite
>> me one first century example where a movement invents wholesale fictions
>> which it then passes off as recent history in order to claim that these
>> inventions are the fulfillment of Jewish scripture?  I can't see anything
>> like this in the rabbis, nothing like it in Qumran (who were very
> interested
>> in the fulfillment of scripture), or anywhere else.
> 
> Parallels to aggadic midrash can be found in the Qumran pesharim.  In this
> sense,
> the pesharim are closer in literary genre to the NT than the later rabbinic
> Midrashim.
> A study of the Qumran pesharim as revolving around the TR rather than Jesus
> is
> the closest contemporary, or near contemorary, parallel to the NT aggadic
> style. I would also suggest that the migration of this style from Jewish
> oral
> tradition to Hellenistic literary tradition is unique to the NT making Mark
> an
> historical first in this area.
> 
> JK
> 
> 
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