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  • From: "Brian Bruns" <camber AT ais.org>
  • To: freetds
  • Subject: Re: Sybase TDS Specification
  • Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:57:51


I'm not accusing Sybase of anything. I've used Sybase products for years
and have been quite happy with them (unfortunately my company is switching
to DB2 for new projects).

However, by accepting the EULA I feel (and once again *I am not a lawyer*)
that I am jepordizing my ability to work on the FreeTDS project. So, I am
choosing not to look at the TDS spec.

I completely agree that this is not some 'underhanded trick'. I think its
just a case of lawyers attempting to protect corporate IP the way they've
always done it and not understanding the new playing field.

I would hope that this could be resolved and the spec is released in a
truelly open manner, but until such a time it's business as usual.


Brian

On 09/15/99, "Greg Beeley <gbeeley AT ix.netcom.com>" wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> > So, I am calling for someone from Sybase to explain themselves - was this
> > some underhanded trick to trap the project proponents into a
> > non-disclosure
> > and non-source agreement and effectively kill the project ?
> >
> > These days it is almost silly to even include such clauses in something -
> > I
> > could get a hotmail account, download that spec from a public library
> > somewhere, and no one could ever tie that download back to me or the
> > freetds project, and that would effectively bypass the agreement entirely.
>
> > On the upside the spec is accessible directly from
> > [url] without agreeing to the EULA. I would encourage anyone who is
> > concerned about becoming 'tainted' to use the direct link and bypass
> > the EULA. I myself have downloaded it (using the direct link), but have
> > not viewed the contents until I am certain whether or not I am still
> > bound by the conditions of the EULA. Is there a lawyer in the house?
>
> I don't know about anyone else on the list here, but I'm a little
> uncomfortable with these types of assertions. In my view, Sybase has been
> very generous in its contributions to the Linux community and such, even
> though there are caveats here and there. If Sybase is really trying
> to pull a trick, obviously it didn't work, but I sincerely doubt that's
> what they're up to. Sybase is a big organization, and the legal department
> probably wasn't fully aware of the goals of the engineering department in
> releasing the TDS spec. Communications get all tangled up in larger
> organizations pretty easily.
>
> If we go asserting that 'click-n-sign' EULAs on the Internet might be
> invalid,
> where does that leave things like the GPL and LGPL? I sincerely doubt
> that questioning the validity or enforceability of click-n-sign or shrink-
> wrap EULAs is the route to go here. If Sybase really wants to find a way
> for FreeTDS to benefit from the official spec, let them do it, and I think
> that would be great. But if that's not what can happen, FreeTDS already
> has quite a project going, and there's no reason I see why it can't
> continue :)

I agree here which is why I am not looking at the spec for fear of tainting
myself. But then source code includes a LGPL copyright with terms of usage
directly in it. This spec is available without anything but a basic
copyright notice when using the direct link. IANAL

>
> I guess my feeling is that if Sybase really wants to help, and sorta goofed
> it up a little bit, and we flame them, they probably aren't going to be
> very motivated to continue to help, and FreeTDS loses. On the other hand,
> if they don't want to help, and the assertions of 'trickery' have merit,
> and we flame them, it still doesn't change anything. So, my thought is
> to treat Sybase professionally and with respect, and let them decide how
> to handle the NDA issue. The ball is in their court now.
>
> Am I way off on this or does this make a little sense?
>
> Greg.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Greg.Beeley AT LightSys.org LightSys - Redeeming Technology...
> http://www.LightSys.org For God's Kingdom.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------




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