Corpus-Paul

["John Wilking" <johnwilking AT hotmail.com>]

Mark,

I'm not making any general principles about ignorance or zeal.  I'm saying 
that if Jeremiah 8 is the source for Paul's thought then ignorance of God's 
righteousness should be interpreted in light of "not knowing God's ways" in 
Jeremiah.  That ignorance seems clearly to be an unnatural one since "even 
the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons."  It was true of 
Jeremiah's audience and it would seem that Paul is applying it to his 
contemporary "Israelites."

Concerning the zeal for God, if the Israelites Paul is referring to are 
rebellious and are ignorant of God's ways due to their rebellion, then it 
doesn't seem that that same group would have a true zeal for God.  If there 
is such a thing as a zeal for God which is wrong-headed (Isa. 58), then it 
would appear to me that it would be what Paul is talking about in Romans 10.

My logic is this: Romans 10 looks like Jeremiah 8 in which rebellion is the 
issue and ignorance is clearly due to rebellion.  If ignorance of God's ways 
has bad roots in Romans, then the "zeal for God", which may be good any 
other time, isn't good here either.

John C. Wilking
> From: "Mark D. Nanos" <nanos AT mail.gvi.net>
> Reply-To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Subject: [corpus-paul] Re: Romans 10:1-4
> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:28:37 -0600
>
> Dear John,
> You wrote:
> > If Jeremiah 8 is the correct source for understanding Romans 10,
> > then ignorance of God's ways arises out of rebellion and a desire to
> > pursue one's own ways.
>
> I am not sure of your point. Is this the only way in which it arises?
> Is this and only this true for all people at all times?
>
> > A zeal for God (Romans 10:2) would likewise be wrong-headed.  This
> > possibility seems to be supported by Isaiah 58:1-12.  The sinful
> > house of Jacob "seeks Me day by day, and delights to know My ways as
> > a nation that has done righteousness, and has not forsaken the
> > ordinance of their God."  Yet they did not understand the true
> > nature of a fast.  "Is this not the fast which I chose, to loosen
> > the bonds of wickedness...?"
>
> I do not understand the connections you are making here. How do you
> conclude that "a zeal for God" "would be wrong-headed" as though this
> was an absolute principle? Do not the prophets and even Jesus call
> for such zeal? Does not Paul boast of such? Does not Isaiah's comment
> assume that seeking God and delighting in knowing God's ways is good?
> Does not the criticism of "the fast" done when not choosing other
> actions of righteousness assume the righteousness of the fast done
> when those other actions are done righteously?
>
> If there is a general principle, is it not that zeal for God, like
> everything else good, can be turned into "not good" when it comes in
> the way of "the good," i.e, God, and good toward those whom he
> created in his good image?
>
> Regards,
> Mark Nanos
>
>
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