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  • From: George Blaisdell <maqhth AT hotmail.com>
  • To: corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?
  • Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:13:29 PDT





From: Robert M Schacht
"Jon Peter" writes:
>Jeffrey wrote:

>>I am only asking whether
>> within the early Christian movement Paul was *the first* to make
>>this move. [Justification by PISTIS IHSOUS CRISTOS] It seems
>> the answer would be *no*.

Jon replied:

>Paul's sequence of events in Gal.1-2 seems to resolve the issue, I
>think:
>
>(1) He receives the Gospel of Christ for Gentiles, in a direct
>vision.
>(2) For 3 yrs he delays going to Jerusalem to discuss this
>(3) At last he visits, staying with Peter for 15 days and seeing no
>one else
>but James.
>(4) Fourteen years pass. Paul now receives a revelation (apokalupsis)
>indicating he is to go to Jerusalem again. He takes along Barnabas
>and
>Titus. He meets with the apparent Jewish-Christian leaders in
>private,
>telling them his Gospel for Gentiles. He is apprehensive about whether
>he
>has been laboring under false beliefs concerning Gentile >inclusion by faith alone. But, following the meeting, >everything seems okay to him because the
>leaders don't require Titus to be circumcised ...
>(5) ...
>(6) ...
>(7) Peter visits Paul in Antioch and his behavior >contradicts the previous understanding.
>(8) In Gal 2.14-15 Paul explains the lesson in all this -- >the Faith Gospel [pistis Iesous Christos] (v 15)
>
>The answer to Jeffrey's question is, that Paul received >his PISTIS Gospel independently.

[Bob]
Which is to say you think Paul didn't get it from anyone (but in a vision?-- see below)

[Jon]
>He meets with Peter and James. Implicitly, the latter
>two accept Paul's PISTIS Gospel and recognize it. ... >I also infer that the initial acceptance of Paul is due >to Peter's recognition that Paul's PISTIS Gospel is true >and correct. Logically, Peter received it from Jesus
>in person before Paul received it in a vision.

There is another solution to this, based on your enumeration and
Jeffrey's original summation: That Paul must have got it from either
Peter or James. They seem to be the only available sources, and are
always on hand for the heavy duty stuff. James letter shows >familiarity with and interest in the issue, but the Petrine letters I don't know about. Of course, these are all considered later than Paul's letters, but that doesn't mean that they don't carry earlier ideas.

The whole issue seems like one that Paul, Peter & James probably
discussed quite a bit in the meetings enumerated above, but of course I can't prove that.

I am very seriously wondering if the PISTIS IHSOUS CRISTOS doctrine is Paul's independently at all. When he first was struck blind on the road to Damascus, he remained blind until he was taken to a member [Ananias] of the church that he was persecuting, where his vision was then restored [after 3 days of total fasting] and he was baptized... Into Christ's Church, where the doctrine of PISTIS is the CORE teaching... So that IF he didn't get it in his blinding vision prior to Ananias, he would most certainly have gotten it with his basptism at Ananias' hands, would he not? And there is no mention of it being given in vision ~ Only that he is to take the message to the Gentiles.

So I would have to guess that Paul received it from the Church, in which it existed from the beginning, and that he received it from Ananias who baptized him. [As well, righteousness by faith does seem to be the underlying thematic of the Psalms, which would make it a pre-Christian doctrine as well, would it not?]

I apologize for my stumbling approach... I am very much a beginner...


George Blaisdell
Roslyn, WA


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