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Subject: Corpus-Paul
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- From: "Jon Peter" <jnp AT home.com>
- To: "Corpus Paulinum" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
- Subject: RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?
- Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:14:33 -0700
Liz wrote:
>
> No, I meant the righteous *Gentile*. He remains a Gentile but is
considered
> righteous. I think it's in the Talmud. But I'm wondering how early the
> concept goes.
>
Okay, now I got it my vote for earliest good Gentile is... Noah (Gen 7.5).
Then, after him, theres Abimelech (Gen 20.5-6). Then we've got Nineveh
(Jonah 3.5). I believe there are 1-2 other individuals mentioned besides,
but cant name them -- examples brought out by the prophets in order to
shame Israel.
>
> Along with this I've been wondering about the notion of Natural Law. It is
a
> Platonic notion I believe. Conversations recorded in the Talmud between a
> rabbi and a Gentile discuss the notion of Natural Law and compare it with
> the Oral Law. The concept of natural law of course preceded Paul. When
Paul
> discusses gentiles who are righteous naturally, could he be referring to
the
> Platonic concept of natural law?
In theory, maybe (but perhaps via Stoicism rather than Platonism). Here is
the Encyclopedia.com blurb:
NATURAL LAW = theory that some laws are fundamental to human nature and
discoverable by human reason without reference to specific legislative acts
or judicial decisions. It is opposed so-called positive law, which is
customary or legislated and is conditioned by history and subject to
continuous change. ROMAN LAW, drawing on theories of Greek STOICISM,
recognized a common cause regulating human conduct; this was the basis for
the later development by GROTIUS of the theory of international law. St.
THOMAS AQUINAS, SPINOZA, and LEIBNIZ all interpreted natural law as the
basis of ethics and morality.
> If so, could this Platonic concept be
> Paul's source for justification without the Torah?
>
In my opinion it would be a stretch to say that Pauls source for
Justification was a Greek philosopher, simply because of the way Paul
expresses his idea: It is intricately connected with the vocabulary,
thought, and theological issues of Habakkuk and Torah.
But I do think it very likely that Paul knew Stoic, Platonic and other Greek
teachings, including possibly natural law. He writes things like: "For when
the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in
the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves " Romans 2:14
Paul is clearly writing here about a biblical idea, though, which just
happens to be similar to the Stoic idea of natural law. Paul continues in v
15, " Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their
conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing
or else excusing one another " Here Pauls "written in their hearts" phrase
is unmistakably taken from the new covenant of Jer 31.33.
Best regards,
Jon
-
Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?
, (continued)
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jim West, 06/17/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jeffrey B. Gibson, 06/17/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jon Peter, 06/17/1999
- RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Liz Fried, 06/17/1999
- RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jon Peter, 06/17/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, dgarlington, 06/17/1999
- RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Liz Fried, 06/17/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jeffrey B. Gibson, 06/17/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jeffrey B. Gibson, 06/17/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jon Peter, 06/17/1999
- RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jon Peter, 06/18/1999
- RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Liz Fried, 06/18/1999
- justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jon Peter, 06/18/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jeff Peterson, 06/18/1999
- Justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, David C. Hindley, 06/20/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Robert M Schacht, 06/22/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, George Blaisdell, 06/22/1999
- RE: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Liz Fried, 06/22/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Jeffrey B. Gibson, 06/22/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, George Blaisdell, 06/23/1999
- Re: justification: a pre-Pauline doctrine?, Robert M Schacht, 06/23/1999
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