RTP-area local music and culture

[grady <grady AT ibiblio.org>]

What's the matter, Hep, did you hang onto your Krispy Kreme stock a 
little too far past its peak?

It's true that I've never actually eaten in a non-NC KK, but if the 
doughnuts are as good in other states as they are here, what's not to 
like? I mean, other than their general inability to run a large public 
company, and that little thing where they force franchisees to buy 
ingredients from them, at prices much higher than the fair market prices?

In answer to your other question: I don't live in Durham, and I've never 
been any good at predicting what will/won't "work" in Durham, nor at 
divining what the city needs in order to revitalize itself. So my 
feelings about the American Tobacco Campus are merely feelings, and not 
informed opinions about what it is or is not doing for the people of Durham.

Briefly: it feels like a mall. In fact, the first time I went there, I 
felt like I was at Southpoint, albeit without the crowds.

The only businesses in it are the various white-collar firms who occupy 
the office space (which is great, sure, nothing wrong with that - folks 
gotta work, and it's certainly better to have them working in an actual 
city rather than out here in fucking RTP where there's literally no 
"there" there), and the restaurants which cater to the people who work 
in the white-collar firms who occupy the office space.

Couple that with its rather forbidding exterior facade, and it feels 
less like an exciting new facet to downtown Durham, and more like a 
white-collar fortress across the train tracks from downtown Durham.

In fact, it's so faceless and anonymous on the outside that it's really 
difficult to explain to people (particularly non-Durhamites) how to find 
the Tyler's Taproom that's hidden inside. I've had trouble giving 
directions to friends, and the last time the Triangle rock-climbing 
group had their monthly meeting there, at least one new member drove all 
around downtown Durham for a half-hour trying to find it before giving 
up & going home.

Like I said, I don't live in Durham and I don't purport to know what it 
needs. But it seems to me that both the ATC and all the schwanky loft 
apartments in converted tobacco warehouses around Brightleaf/Duke St. 
have become this weird walled yuppie enclave just to the south & west of 
downtown Durham, and downtown itself hasn't actually received any direct 
benefit/improvement from it all.

And maybe somebody who lives downtown could explain this to me: where do 
all the people who live in those lofts buy their groceries, and go to 
the drugstore, and etc?

Anyway. The thing about development, in Durham or anywhere else, is that 
it's a delicate multi-way push/pull thing between the developers with 
the money, the city government with its own needs (and its own 
perception of the city's needs, which may or may not be accurate), and 
the actual people who live there currently, as well as the people who'd 
potentially be moving into the newly-developed spaces. That's at least 4 
different constituencies, overlapping to greater/lesser degrees. We can 
argue all we want about, for example, the rightness/wrongness of 
restricting "nightclub" activity in downtown Durham, but we have to 
remember that there's at least one downtown resident who *hates* the 
noise from the few clubs that are down there (remember that long cranky 
letter in the Indy a couple of years ago that we mocked mercilessly at 
the time?).

I mean, yes, it's stupid to expect to live in a "downtown" and have it 
be as peaceful & quiet as the countryside after 8 p.m. -- but then 
again, there have been big chunks of the past 20 years when that was 
more-or-less the reality of downtown Durham, so maybe that expectation 
is more realistic than our idealized expectation of a downtown full of 
life after dark.

My friends who have moved here from the big city will usually say that 
they don't miss much about the city, except for one thing: they could do 
everything they wanted to do, for weeks & even months at a time, without 
a car. I think it's great that so much [lip service | attention] is 
being paid to this whole "new urbanism" / "mixed-use" development trend, 
but I can't think of anywhere in the Triangle where one of these 
new-urbanist enclaves have gone up where even 5% of the residents could 
live for more than 3-4 days without getting in a car.

I'd say if downtown Durham wants to come up with some big-picture Goals 
for the Future, that would be one to consider. They've certainly made a 
good start via their de-facto expulsion of cars from downtown by turning 
all the streets into giant gaping holes in the ground ;-)

Ross

James Hepler wrote:
> To change the subject a litle bit, I've always found
> it fascinating how my North Carolinian brethren and
> sistren love so much to use Starbucks as the symbol of
> everything that's bad about the world while munching
> happily on Krispy Kreme doughnuts.
>
> --- Caleb Southern <southernc AT mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > first of all, i know that you sit on the durham
> > city board of zoning.  
> >
> > Correct. I am a member of the Durham Planning
> > Commission.
> >
> >
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > i therefore find the fact that you cannot explain
> > the zoning change
> > > proposed by commisioner reckhow without waving your
> > arms to be...
> > > disheartening.
> > I posted the Herald-Sun article, and referred to the
> > comments of Durham
> > Planning Director Frank Duke. He is certainly an
> > expert on zoning issues. I
> > would also generally associate myself with the
> > comments of County
> > Commissioner Lewis Cheek, as reported in the Herald.
> >
> >
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > finally, i checked the company you keep.  you sit
> > on the board of downtown
> > > durham, inc., 
> > Correct. DDI does some things that I agree with, and
> > some others that I do
> > not. I joined this board in an attempt to influence
> > the policy positions of
> > this organization from the inside. I am one of two
> > downtown residents who
> > sit on this 41 member board. There are about three
> > small business owners on
> > this board - only one of which is a retailer.
> >
> > I could sit on the outside and express opinions
> > about DDI when I disagree
> > with them, or I could sit on the board and try to
> > influence the direction of
> > this organization from the inside.
> >
> > On this particular issue, my views happen to be very
> > different from many
> > others at DDI.
> >
> >
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > and it seemed as if your call to "ACTION" came, in
> > part, directly from that
> > > organization.  
> > Dead wrong.
> >
> > My call to action was a direct *REACTION* to
> > positions long expressed by
> > some staff and some board members within DDI,
> > advocating for additional
> > regulation of entertainment businesses. Similar
> > comments from the Chair of
> > the Durham Board of County Commissioners reinforced
> > this position.
> >
> > There is another perspective on downtown zoning
> > issues and entertainment. I
> > will likely be the only representative on the board
> > of this organization
> > expressing this side of the issue - being to leave
> > zoning ordinances the way
> > they are. 
> >
> > This issue is an example of one reason I chose to
> > join this board -- to
> > express points of view that would otherwise not be
> > represented.
> >
> >
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > i checked it out, and it [DDI] seems to me to be a
> > collection of banks and
> > > corporations, with a smattering of nonprofit types.
> >  these are the groups
> > > that brought us the american tobacco campus, a
> > starbucks, and a wonderful
> > > brown river that runs straight toward the heart of
> > downtown.
> >
> > Correct. 
> >
> > Would you rather someone like myself, with a
> > different perspective than the
> > aforementioned, *NOT* be on the DDI board?
> >
> >
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > on what basis should i trust such a group? as rich
> > (mostly) white
> > > men, they aren't responsible to me.  they are
> > responsible to their
> > > shareholders.  
> > The position I have taken on this zoning issue is
> > unpopular with many at
> > DDI.
> >
> >
> > Rick Sawyer wrote:
> > > so, i'm supposed to swallow it when they pump out
> > some theory about our 
> > > elected officials entering into cabal against
> > downtown development?  
> >
> > Again, your understanding of the various positions
> > and who is pushing them
> > is incorrect.
> >
> > As I stated, the position coming from some at DDI
> > and the positions reported
> > in the paper from Commissioner Reckhow (which she
> > has since backed away
> > from) were generally consistent -- more zoning
> > regulation that would further
> > restrict entertainment businesses in downtown
> > Durham. 
> >
> > This is the issue of relevance and interest to this
> > list. 
> >
> > The position I am advocating (in favor of the status
> > quo zoning allowing
> > downtown entertainment, and against further
> > regulation) is the exact
> > opposite of what is coming from some at DDI and
> > originally reported as that
> > of Ellen Reckhow.
> >
> >
> > ***
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > It is bizarre that you continue to falsely
> > characterize me as representing
> > some of the very positions that I oppose. What kind
> > of strange conspiracy
> > theory world do you live in?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- ch-scene: the list that mirrors
> > alt.music.chapel-hill --
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ch-scene
>
>
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