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cc-nz - Re: [Cc-nz] Volunteer Network and Facebook: Call for Feedback

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  • From: Leigh Blackall <leighblackall AT gmail.com>
  • To: Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand discussion <cc-nz AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Cc-nz] Volunteer Network and Facebook: Call for Feedback
  • Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 08:02:54 +1100

get over it all!?

Danyl raises issues and principles that are shared by quite a few people here. To be dismissive toward those might as well extent to being dismissive about other issues and principles raised in this forum, like copyright for example. But we don't.

If basic marketing is what it's about, then consistency in the message-as-medium is important.

In the education world, we face issues around 'duty of care' when it comes to decisions on whether or not to use FB. We should avoid compelling people to use a platform they might have issue with, including the internet as a whole!

The way I deal with this in online course development though, is to persist with a central website where the information is posted, and to use things like what Paul suggests to automate cross posting. Discussions then take place in the various venues, so as facilitator I note key points raised and periodically post them as new posts to the central site. Once a month or so, I generate a summary or report, and that gets posted on the site, in email, and snail-mail if necessary. Once a year, I compile a print-on-demand year book, and get a copy into the libraries.

It's an attempt at universal design in communication, where disability concerns are extended to other concerns of access, including preservation for generations, and the issues that Danyl raises. No one is compelled or excluded through medium or channel, but as many mediums and channels are efficiently used.

I'd like to add Wikipedia and the reheated projects to this thread though. Does CCNZ run a Wikipedia communications channel? I would suggest that such a presence would be equally important as a FB presence.

On Dec 8, 2012 11:31 PM, "Sutherland, Paul" <Paul.Sutherland AT ccc.govt.nz> wrote:
Oh come on - get over it all. This is not that bad. Using ascendant channels to promote a cause is a basic promotion and marketing strategy,

As I mentioned in my previous post the Creative Commons has a Facebook Page.

>>Creative Commons has a Facebook page - as all modern organisations should.
>>http://www.facebook.com/creativecommons
>>
>>They have over 81,000 likes.

And as they say on Radio New Zealand National - you do not to have a Facebook account to view.
So you will be ok - no one will be watching you - I am sure you will have all cookies disabled already

Selective quoting loses context - what makes a conversation - I know there are two thoughts - mine is that an email conversation should be able to retain context without having to refer to an hidden archive - e.g. the previous thread - you could at least quote that - http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-nz/2012-December/000879.html I guess that what you mean by top post - too lazy to look it up in the evil Google search box to find a free (but open to manipulation, hey and we need your donation) Wikipedia article (that I may disagree with). If your spamcatcher is a problem you should get a better one that trying to change my preferences.

I imagine that you will spend a lot of time worrying about all the stuff that could go wrong - but

Surely the question is not should CC-NZ have a Facebook page (like the CC Uber has)


But what is it going to be - and how is it sustained and fed.

Oh yeah but I already said that

>>There is no reason why CC Aoteoroa and CC_NZ licenses should not have a Facebook presence.
>>Surely it is really a matter of defining what the personality of that presence should be, and the nature of the posts.

>> How about using a tool like IFTTT https://ifttt.com/wtf to automate
>> some of the posts...

//paul  ;-}

p.s.

And really what is wrong with Microsoft Windows? - I bet you know lots of people (heaps) that would not to be able to have any engagement with the digital world if they did not use MS Windows or IOS.


-----Original Message-----
From: cc-nz-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:cc-nz-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Danyl Strype
Sent: Saturday, 8 December 2012 11:49 PM
To: Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand discussion
Subject: Re: [Cc-nz] Volunteer Network and Facebook: Call for Feedback

Kia ora koutou

On 8 December 2012 12:47, Sutherland, Paul <Paul.Sutherland AT ccc.govt.nz> wrote:
>> There is no reason why CC Aoteoroa and CC_NZ licenses should not have
>> a Facebook presence. Surely it is really a matter of defining what
>> the personality of that presence should be, and the nature of the
>> posts. <<

Since you've brought it up, there is at least one very good reason. CC having a presence on FB could be seen as an endorsement of FB. There are number of good reasons why I wouldn't want to be seen to be endorsing FB, and plenty of CC supporters feel the same way. Some common reasons:

* their constant reversal of privacy protections, requiring people to regularly turn the settings on aspects of their account back to 'private' (if possible).
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/facebook-timeline

* The massive power of censorship that they have, and regularly use, often without explicit reasons given, or any accountability http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/facebook-censors-picture-elbow-breast-boob_n_2198223.html

* The Sisyphusian task involved in deleting an account, and the emotionally manipulative techniques the site uses in its attempts to discourage you ("your friend X will miss you if you leave FB!")

My concerns go much deeper than these.

FB now hold a effective monopoly (like Windows 10 years ago), having effectively privatized most people's online relationships on the basis of an unsustainable loss leading business model, . When their growth eventually peaks, they are likely to start monetizing those relationships, erecting toll gates between people and their "friends", or more likely between community pages and those who have joined or "liked" them. The risk is that the effective monopoly they hold, and the degree to which people's data and contact networks are locked-in, could allow them to succeed at this in a way that no email service (for example) ever could.

Some people would say that to use FB at all is to be an accessory to its dubious practices, and that the only ethical use of FB is to create "fire exits" which show people that there are other non-proprietary spaces for online interaction, based on principles of free association and open federation. I agree with them,

>> This list, and Facebook and any other presence should have some
>> synergy <<

Yes, as we've said, a CC presence on FB should be used to funnel people out of FB and into online spaces the community controls, not a monopolistic corporation.

>> How about using a tool like IFTTT https://ifttt.com/wtf to automate
>> some of the posts... <<

An interesting idea. It would be great if there is a free code tool which could automatically syndicate content posted to cc.org.nz, this list, Twitter etc to a FB page, without any of us having to do anything manually.

Ma te wā
Strypey

BTW If you are going to top-post, can you please trim the long chain of past emails off the bottom? If the emails get too big, they get stuck in the spamcatcher ;)


--
Danyl Strype
Community Developer
Disintermedia.net.nz/strype

"Geeks are those who partake in our culture."
- .ISOcrates

"Uncomfortable alliances are not just necessary; they reflect and speak to the tremendous possibility of our political moment."
- Harmony Goldberg and Joshua Kahn Russell
http://www.nationofchange.org/new-radical-alliances-new-era-1337004193

"Both Marxists and Chicago-school libertarian economists can agree that free software is the best model."
- Keith C Curtis
http://keithcu.com/wordpress/?page_id=407
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