Development of Creative Commons licenses

[Terry Hancock <hancock AT anansispaceworks.com>]

Joachim Durchholz wrote:
> Terry Hancock schrieb:
>>Joachim Durchholz wrote:
>>>I don't see any problems with NC (Non Commercial). I think you mean ND - 
>>>No Derivatives.
>>
>>No, both are traps for free software authors:
>>
>>ND - use my code in anything new, I sue you
> 
> Right.
> 
>>NC - use my code in anything new, I extort you for money or I sue you anyway
> 
> No. "Use my code in anything new that you make money of and I'll sue you."

INCORRECT
NC prohibits:
        * Any use that directly or indirectly generates revenue (NOTE:
"revenue", not "profit" -- deferring the cost of distribution counts as
commercial)
        * Any use by a commercial entity, period.
        * You are a commercial entity if you every make a profit.
        * "indirectly" can mean almost anything -- knowing free software and
using Wikipedia are of great benefit to me in "commercial" endeavors,
like writing a book.
        * Thus ALL USE OF SOFTWARE is commercial (at least for all practical
purposes). You can't be using it non-commercially unless you just sit
and look at it.


>>(Oh yeah, and I can sue you just for using it unchanged, too!)
> 
> No. The CC license always implies the right to pass on.
> (Or did I get that wrong?)

You seem to be terribly confused. NC is a USE restriction. It limits use
to "non-commercial" activities. Unfortunately, practically everything is
at least potentially a commercial activity. This becomes extremely true
for utilitarian works, which almost all software is.

This restriction applies to the copy I receive, not just derivations
that I make.

>>At least if no source is provided, I have a strong hint that the
>>software is non-free.
> 
> Please qualify what you mean by "free".

The freedom to use the work, make modifications to the work and use it
as I please, including redistributing the improved work. IOW, *I* am
free to use the work that has been handed to me without strings attached.

> Either it's "freedoms", then even without source, you can have freedoms 
> (e.g. to pass it on).

So what's your problem with using CC-ND or CC-NC then? If source is not
an issue, why do you want special treatment?

> Or it's "freedom", the state of being free, which is inapplicable to 
> software since it doesn't have consciousness.

As I've point out, you are engaging in senseless word games. The use of
free to apply to the object of freedom rather than its subject is common
 in such uses as "free speech", "free passage", "free of cost", etc.

> Or it's the FSF's definition of "free", which is by definition not the 
> case if we use anything but the GPL, so there's no point in even trying 
> to be free in that sense.

INCORRECT
        There are many FSD "Free" licenses which are not GPL, nor even "GPL
compatiple". Just don't want the word "GNU" on your license and don't
care about compatibility? Fine -- use the IBM or Mozilla public licenses
(or any of dozens of others).

>>And why would you provide source for either? I have no economic
>>incentive to contribute to your codebase either way.
> 
> I might get my patches applied in the next version of the software.
> So I might get bugfixes and functional improvements earlier; that can be 
> enough of an incentive to contribute.

ND: such patches are forbidden

NC: can't use the work or the patches commercially, so still no economic
incentive

You are trying to get something for nothing. That's a generally
unsuccessful strategy.

Besides it fails to make the case for a source *requirement*, which is
the only reason for re-writing NC and ND licenses. CC-NC and CC-ND don't
prevent you from releasing source.



Well, You, Greg, and I are all pretty much out of arguments, you just
keep repeating the same complaints, which we've already answered. So I
think, unless you raise some genuinely new point, I'm dropping out of
this thread. It's just not that interesting: NC and ND for software must
be the world's best example of a "dead horse".

Cheers,
Terry

-- 
Terry Hancock (hancock AT AnansiSpaceworks.com)
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com