Baslinux mailing list

[sindi keesan <keesan2 AT cyberspace.org>]

> > 1.  Login on VT1 - load X with xinit (VT7)
> > 2.  Ctrl-Alt-F2 to VT2 - wvdial (connect to ISP)
> > 3.  Ctrl-Alt-F7 - load Netscape 4.61, access the suse.de home page
> 
> You can probably combine steps (1) and (3)

If I did, unless I first ran step 2 (which would tie up my phone line
longer) Netscape would complain about not being able to access the home
page.  I have been unable to change any of the preferences so as to start
with a blank page. I can toggle the radio buttons but I don't see anything
equivalent to the Win95 Netscape OK button which I think is how you apply
the changes.  

> -----------------
> xinit -e netscape
> -----------------
> Then CTRL-ALT-F2 to do wvdial.  Or you could do wvdial first
> and (while it is dialing) run your xinit line.

I did not know I could do other things while dialing.  DOS does not work
like that, I am used to one thing at a time.  Thanks.  


> > Would anyone else like to try running Netscape with no 
> > window manager?  
> 
> I ran Netscape for three months without a wm.  Then I discovered
> icewm.  Netscape ran better under icewm than with no-wm *and*
> there was no noticeable performance hit (on a 486-66 with 20mb
> RAM).

Please explain what you mean by running better.  I have been trying it
both ways (fvwm)J and I don't see any difference.  I have the same
problems. At my webmail site when I click on Inbox it takes me to a page
with tabs at the top (Read is selected) but no list of received mails.  If
I then try to go to my ISP main page I get a blank page, with or without a
window manager.  The site works well with Lynx (and I think also Links). 

> 
> > The other problem is that after exiting Netscape, I could not 
> > enter any commands in the xterm 
> 
> Without a wm, you have very limited options.  Only the current 
> process running in X is responsive.  The only way to get control
> of the original xterm is to cleanly shut down every subsequent
> process

As far as  I know I was running ONLY Netscape.  Sometimes after typing
Alt-Q I can then  run other commands in xterm, sometimes not.  I have not
spotted a pattern.  I figured out I could reboot from VT3 instead of
powering off.

> >  nor could I exit X, or even reboot with Ctrl-Alt-Del.  
> 
> Try CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE.  That should terminate the Xserver.
Thanks - never heard of that combination.  
I had been typing exit into the xterm.

> > Does Netscape require a window manager to behave properly?  
> 
> My experience is that Netscape 3.04 performs better with a wm.

Have you tried 4.61?

> > I did not have the problem of being unable to use xterm after 
> > exiting Netscape 
> 
> You probably had a clean exit of Netscape.  
> 
> > when I did not first use it online 
> 
> When you used it online, it probably started a sub-process that
> was not cleanly exited.  For example, Netscape sometimes displays
> a warning message in a separate window.  It is possible that you 
> didn't see that window (perhaps because there was no wm).  If you
> don't click the OK in the message window, you won't get a clean 
> exit.

I notice I have been getting all sorts of separate message windows at my
webmail site (don't recall if I got them only with a wm) about downloading
a plugin.  Perhaps that is the problem, if so I really should have a wm to
run Netscape and be able to exit properly.  (So that I can get rid of the
numerous warning messages - there was also a message about the security
certificate having expired at my ISP in Dec 2001 - they don't seem to
believe me when I report that).  I will check if I get these messages
without a wm.  Never would have thought of this myself.  




> 
> > Since even twm or mwm seem to take up over 1.5M RAM, it would 
> > be nice not to bother with them.  
> 
> That's why I recommend icewm.  It uses less than that.
> Many people think that twm is the slimmest wm (probably
> because it has so few features); however, icewm is slimmer
> than twm (and it offers many more features).

twm has so few features that I still have no idea how to enter a command
while running twm (though I can now resize and move windows).

What do you like about icewm that ratpoison or ion do not do?
If I only run one X program does it make a difference which wm I use?
(Would one  of these work better with Netscape?)

> 
> > Netscape plus X (on a 16M RAM computer) uses nearly
> > 14M even without a window manager, 
> 
> Which Netscape?  I've successfully run Netscape 3.04
> with icewm in 12mb RAM.

Netscape 4.61 (came with SuSE, on which I am experimenting with X before
figuring out how Eo kermit it via a nullmodem cable to BL2, and to help
decide which X programs I might want to load including wm's).  Netscape
told me that the security certificate for 3 was no longer valid, but for 4
it was.  You need security at some sites. 


> > Does Opera use less RAM?  Does Dillon?
> 
> Dillo is the smallest:
> ------------------------------------------------
> Current Netscape > Opera > Netscape 3.04 > Dillo
> ------------------------------------------------

Current Netscape being 4?  

What exactly goes wrong with Opera?  I find the lack of keyboard support
in Linux Netscape a real drawback and Opera worked entirely without a
mouse in Win95.  (Also Netscape is not doing a very good job at some
sites and Opera is more recent).

My primary reason for running Opera or Netscape is to access sites
requiring javascript.  (I was also dreaming some day of getting
Realaudio to work so as to listen to Czech programs).  Why would you use
Dillo instead of Lynx or Links if it does not do javascript?  Will it work
with Realaudio?    


I tried TOP and discovered that SuSE Linux is running 1 login, 5
mingettys (unused terminals - I might pare this down to 4 total), cron
(they say to be sure never to delete this from rc.config), lpd (just in
case we ever want to print), syslogd, klogd, kflushd, kpiod, kswapd.
Presumably the k's are not needed if you don't use KDE?  This is far fewer
things than Redhat 6.0 was running (and it boots a lot faster too).  


> Cheers,
> Steven
> 
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