Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kolinsky <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net>]

Karl,

Unfortunately, I rarely have enough time to thoroughly address your very 
valid points.  Additionally, the paradigm that you seem to be working from is 
clearly differently than my own.  But I would like to make a few points that 
I nevertheless know beforehand that you will reject them.

You are entirely correct that there is also a root שרה that means "to let 
loose, 
immerse, soak, steep, saturate" as in (Jr15:11) and you may even be correct 
regarding Jb 37:3 (I dont have time to examine it fully right now).  

However, not every cognate is the same root, it may just appear to be such.
Consider the root (RM which has three sources

1 - to heap up which comes from  Ayin + RWM (be high)
2 - to be naked which come from  (RH (naked) + M
3 - to be deceptive, cunning from  Ayin + RMH (deceive)

Likewise ShWR => ShRH has two sources

1 - to fix upon (visually and physically) from Sh + YRH (to aim, set < shoot, 
throw, penetrate)
2 - to set loose, immerse, soak, steep, saturate from Sh + RWH (pour forth, 
water)

So in short, not all cognates are equal or trully the same root.  It seems 
that at times you disallow these differences that may be found in a 
trilateral in root.  Your refusal to see that )ShR is actually two roots is 
evidence for that.

1 - to confirm, celebrate, be happy ? + ShRH (be firm upon) 
2 - to go intentionally, directly from ? + ShWR (fix upon visually)
*obviously the correctness of my derivations stands on less firm ground than 
the examples above

On your point regarding שיר to sing, the wikipedia makes this statement under 
the heading of singing > resonance "Various terms related to the resonation 
process include amplification, 
enrichment, enlargement, improvement, intensification, and prolongation, 
(although in strictly scientific usage acoustic authorities would 
question most of them.) ((parenthesis added by me and included so as not to 
be accused of deception))
I would argue that the most primitive understanding of singing would be less 
sophisticated where a PROLONGATION of tone would best describe what the 
essence of singing is.  Prolongation basically being the same as "holding a 
note firm."


Lastly given the choice between "let loose" and "focusing a thing" I think a 
missile would be derived from the latter rather than the former.  A missile 
"let loose" is of no value if it is 
not "focused."


Respects,
david kolinsky
Monterey, CA

--- On Mon, 9/19/11, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:

From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] a much bigger and relevant issue not exactly about 
Caleb
To: "David Kolinsky" <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 3:35 PM

David:

On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 10:20 PM, David Kolinsky <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net> 
wrote:

Karl,

Since Sarai, Sarah, and Yisrael are all based on the root SRH lets look at 
that only for now.

SRH to fix upon:  

in wrestling there are takedowns, controls (holds), and reversals - 
in Hebrew "the hold" is described by the verb SRH to wrestle  (Gn32:29), 
(Hs12:4); 


This is found in only three verses, and does it really have the meaning of 
grappling, or of throwing dust on the other to blind them so they could be 
knocked down and defeated?

שרה to strive as in wrestling Gn 32:29, Ho 12:4, 5 
the reversals and takedowns by ?BQ (entangle with eachother) to wrestle 
(Gn32:25,26) 


Referring to a “dust-up”
אבק to get dusty (from fighting, traveling) ⇒ to wrestle

ShWR means (hold firmly in one's sights)  to get a fix on (see) 
(Nm23:9,24:17)(Hs14:9)(Jb,7:8,17:15,20:9,24:15,33:14,34:29,35:13)(SoS4:8)

to behold (Jb36:24) in Polael

שור to gaze (upon)
 
S?R in Arabic = set out, move along, march, get going, be headed for s.th, be 
directed / oriented, be guided by; route


Arabic meaning is irrelevant. 

ShRR = to direct (Jb37:3) 

שרה to let loose Jb 37:3 

With a derivative:שריה missile, can be an arrow from a bow, stone from a 
sling, etc. ?? αλ Jb 41:18
 

You may be thinking of another word:שרר to chain in ?? ⇒ to be a prince ⇒ to 
rule, this is a rule that is not law making, which the king did, but the 
enforcement of laws, keeping the people in line metaphorically chaining them 
in, a more modern understanding: to be a sheriff or policeman
 ?ShR = to go intentionally / directly (Pr9:16);

Wrong letters 
 (Pr4:14) ; 
to direct, lead (Is3:12;9:15)
(Pr23:19) 
(Is9:15) 

All of these are:אשר to have joyful contentment from doing the right thing 

In Is 9:15 referring to people who led people astray telling people that what 
they were doing is right when it wasn’t. 
ShRyR(hold firm) muscle (Jb40:16) 

One of the derivatives of שרר

YShR = straight


ישר to be straight ⇒ as in upright, righteous 


The sense of all of these words is "to hold firm" 


Not אשר not ישר nor שרה to let loose Jb 37:3 while you forgot to include שיר 
to sing
 in some cases physically: to wrestle, muscle

in others visually.  When you hold something firmly visually, we call that 
FOCUSING.

Alright, I’ll biteJust looking at the synonyms of ראה to look, also in the 
sense of to consider, think about, almost all have the idea of focussing:

בקר to look after, 
הבר to observe, חוס to regard with concern for (upon), 
חזה to vision, view, 
נבט to stare, i.e. look closely at or with expectation, נכר to view (or 
listen) for purposes of recognition, both familiar and strange, and to give 
recognition ⇒ to estrange, make strange (give recognition that is a 
stranger), (hit) to disguise oneself (make oneself not recognizable), 
עין to have one’s eye on (somebody), 
צפה to look out (for, upon) ⇒ to plate (the plating is what is looked upon), 
שבר to look to, in the sense of expectation (looking for provision) ⇒ to get 
provisions (e.g. food), provide for,  ⇒ to look over for planning, making 
provision for action Ne 2:13, 15, 
שגח to look steadily, to gaze, 
שור to gaze (upon), שזף to glimpse for a moment, 
שעה to look with pleasure, approval, hit. look to oneself with approval ⇒ שעה 
מ remove approval from, 
שקף to look out (e.g. from a window), draw one’s attention to (for purposes 
of looking, acting), 
תאה to sight (surveying)
Therefore, when I see any of these words use, I should be thinking of 
focussing as well? 

When we follow our focus, we go directly, intently, and straight toward 
something.


How about the times we focus on something as something to avoid, and turn the 
other way? Examples:
זנח to turn, push away from, an act of rejection or spurningקוץ to be aroused 
in order to avoid

And some of their synonyms. 
Tell me something, did I fabricate anything here?
Yes, a connection that is not there.
   Perhaps, you can still disagree with my conclusions as to what the names 
mean, but SRH, ShWR, SRR, ShRR, ?ShR, YShR, mean these things.  


No they don’t mean these things. 
You forgot:
שיר to singHow does that word fit your focussing thing? 

Sincerely

David Kolinsky
Monterey, CA

Karl W. Randolph. 


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 Related to Hb 1:7.
The word MMNW (4th in the verse) comes as a part of the first part of the
verse or it has to be considered as a part of the second part of the verse?

I think that surely it refers to the second part, as a complement of the
verb YC)

Am I right?

Pere Porta
(Barcelona, Catalonia, Northeastern Spain)


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