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  • From: kenneth greifer <greifer AT hotmail.com>
  • To: <srshead+bh AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Psalm 22 answering quotes
  • Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:34:22 +0000


Stephen,

In case your email doesn't get through again, I have decided to send it to
b-hebrew for you.

Kenneth Greifer



From: srshead+bh AT gmail.com
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:36:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Psalm 22 answering quotes
To: greifer AT hotmail.com
CC: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Hi all,


I sent this reply to Kenneth Greifer and b-hebrew a few days ago, but for
some reason it never showed up on the list. Having waited a few days, I
figured I'd resend it, even though it's rather "old news" - partly because
I'd be interested to know what you all think, and partly to see whether the
list has suddenly decided I'm an evil robot. (And Kenneth, I've added more at
the end...)


---

Hi Kenneth,


I agree with Pere: I think "You have answered me!" is the best translation,
and that it breaks into the flow of the poem as a sudden cry of triumph.
Perhaps the abruptness communicates something of the Psalmist's surprise at
the sudden deliverance - even if it wasn't entirely unexpected (given his
trust in God), it comes out of the blue.


I'd argue that the parallelism supports (or at least is consistent with) such
an interpretation.


- v.21 has two parallel lines, with an elided verb in the second:
"Rescue from the sword my NP$
** from the hand of the dog my YXYD"
(where ** represents the ellipsis)


- v.22 begins the same way, and so we would expect the same elided-verb
structure in the second half. That is just what we get - except that the
surprise interjection is tacked onto the end:
"Save me from the mouth of the lion,
and ** from the horns of the wild oxen -
You have answered me!"



I hope that makes sense. The point is that the parallelism leads us not to
expect a verb in the final line (let alone a perfect form stuck on the end).


Incidentally, from a very quick skim, there are various translations that
render (NYTNY as an indicative ("you have rescued me") rather than an
imperative, though the relationship with the rest of the line varies:


English Standard Version: "Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have
rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!"
Holman Christian Standard Bible: "Save me from the mouth of the lion! You
have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen."
NET Bible (the closest to what I have argued for): "Rescue me from the mouth
of the lion, and from the horns of the wild oxen! You have answered me!"


With regard to (NWT in v.25, I just noticed that Holladay's excellent little
lexicon in fact supports Kenneth: for Psalm 22:25, it says "read עֲנוֹת" -
i.e. the infinitive construct of (NH - and refers to the entry for (NH
"answer".


Pere referred to comparing with the LXX: in fact, the LXX has δεησις, "the
entreaty/supplication of the poor", which certainly doesn't support
"affliction".


And finally, the infinitive construct of (NH in David's song in 2 Sam 22:36
is interesting, because it is used as a simple substantive: וַעֲנֹתְךָ
תַּרְבֵּנִי, "your answer makes me great". Again, in my mind, this makes
Kenneth's suggestion at least worth considering.


The greatest difficulty is the semantic oddness: What would it mean, "he did
not detest the answer of the afflicted"? It would either be "did not detest
answering / (giving) an answer to the afflicted" (unlikely syntax??), or with
the LXX tweak it to "the entreaty of the afflicted", which seems very
unlikely. (And of course, the answer to this doesn't actually affect your
argument for v.22 - the whole of v.25 implies an answer anyway.)


Regards,
Stephen Shead
Centro de Estudios Pastorales
Santiago, Chile




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kenneth greifer <greifer AT hotmail.com>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 16:07:06 +0000
Subject: [b-hebrew] Psalm 22 answering quotes

Psalm 22:22 seems to say "...You answered me", but most translations say
"answer me" with the command form. Psalm 22:25 says "You did not hate the
affliction (afflicting?) an afflicted one", but it could say "You did not
hate answering an afflicted one". It sounds like G-d answered the cry of the
person in the from Psalm 22:2-3, but the translations make it sound like he
was not answered. Am I misunderstanding the psalm?

Kenneth Greifer

"Real intellectuals can discuss any subject, but pseudo-intellectual snobs
only discuss things they agree with." (I noticed many b-hebrew members have
little sayings under their names, so I came up with this one. I wonder if
that is allowed or do you have to quote someone else?)





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