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Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?
- From: Stephen Shead <srshead+bh AT gmail.com>
- To: chrisechols <chrisechols AT gmail.com>, b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?
- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:46:24 -0400
Chris,
I absolutely agree with Barry. Whether or not the particular verb form in
question (the pi'el) ever has a "permissive" nuance, in this case of this
particular verb it is very clearly causative.
* In the "qal" form (something like the "basic" sense), it normally means
"be strong" or "grow strong", with various nuances and extensions of this
meaning - for example, the idiom "for one's hands to grow strong" means "to
have courage". In the case of Pharaoh, "his heart grow strong" has the sense
"his heart grew hard" (Ex. 7:13 etc.).
* In the "pi'el" form, the normal sense is something like "make strong, make
firm, strengthen". In the instances I scanned, it makes no sense at all to
try to have it mean "allow to be strong"! Examples:
- Psa 147:13, "For he strengthens the bars of your gates; he blesses your
children within you" - but "For he lets the bars of your gates be strong"???
- Isa 35:3, "Strengthen the weak hands, and make firm the feeble knees" -
but "Allow the weak hands to grow strong, and the feeble knees to grow
firm"???
- Judg 16:28, "Then Samson called to the LORD and said, 'O Lord GOD, please
remember me and please strengthen me only this once, O God, that I may be
avenged on the Philistines for my two eyes'" - but "Please remember me and
please allow me to be strong only this once"??? How exactly will God not be
the active cause in Samson regaining his strength?
When we come to the "hard heart" sense of the pi'el form, most of the
instances relate to Pharaoh. However, Joshua 11:20 does not, and once again,
it is extremely contrived to force a "passive" reading on the text:
- Josh 11:20, "For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts that they
should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted
to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed, just as the
LORD commanded Moses."
The problem with a passive reading ("let their hearts be hard") is that the
statements of purpose which follow are very strong: "*that* they should come
... *in order that* they should be devoted to destruction, completely
destroyed". A contrived passive reading doesn't succeed in softening the
impact of the verse, and doesn't make sense anyway: the Lord has determined
to do all these things with a very definite purpose. He doesn't just "let"
them happen.
So returning to verses like Exodus 4:21, "I will let his heart be hardened"
runs completely contrary to the sense of the verb in the pi'el - both in the
more common senses, and in the "hardened heart" sense in Joshua 11:20.
And an incidental note for group members: From a brief scan to remind
myself, this exposition of חזק pi'el is completely in line with Waltke &
O'Connor's theory of the pi'el in the Hebrew verbal system ... though I
don't know why I'm being silly enough to bring up such a contentious subject
... :) <runs ducking for cover>
Best regards,
Stephen Shead
Centro de Estudios Pastorales
Santiago, Chile
---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Barry H." <nebarry AT verizon.net>
> To: "Chris Echols" <chrisechols AT gmail.com>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:43:32 -0400
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative"
> tenses in Biblical Hebrew?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Echols" <chrisechols AT gmail.com>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:30 PM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative"
> tenses in Biblical Hebrew?
>
>
> This permissive vs. causative theory says that this verse would better be
>> translated "...* but I will let his heart be hardened*..." as to remove
>> from
>> God any active action in doing something evil. To further drive home the
>> point, we see that Rotherham's Emphasized Bible translates this verse as...
>> “And Yahweh said unto Moses, When thou goest to return to Egypt, see as
>> touching all the wonders which I have put in thy hand, that thou do them
>> before Pharaoh—*but, I, will let his heart wax bold*, and he will not
>> suffer
>> the people to go.” —Exodus 4:21 Rotherham
>>
>
> What is your take on this phenomenon?
>>
>
> I think it's a theory based on theology, not Hebrew.
>
> N.E. Barry Hofstetter, semper melius Latine sonat...
> Classics and Bible Instructor, TAA
> http://www.theamericanacademy.net
> (2010 Savatori Excellence in Education Winner)
> V-P of Academic Affairs, TNARS
> bhofstetter AT tnars.net
> http://www.tnars.net
>
> http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog
> http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry
>
-
[b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
Chris Echols, 09/08/2010
- Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?, Barry H., 09/08/2010
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
Stephen Shead, 09/09/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
Stephen Shead, 09/09/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
Chris Echols, 09/10/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
K Randolph, 09/10/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
George Athas, 09/13/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
K Randolph, 09/13/2010
- Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?, George Athas, 09/13/2010
- Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?, K Randolph, 09/13/2010
- [b-hebrew] Aspect and aktionsart, Kimmo Huovila, 09/14/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
K Randolph, 09/13/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
George Athas, 09/13/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
K Randolph, 09/10/2010
- Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?, Steve Miller, 09/12/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
Chris Echols, 09/10/2010
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Is there any such thing as "permissive"/"causative" tenses in Biblical Hebrew?,
Stephen Shead, 09/09/2010
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