Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>]

I really have no other source to state that a noun ending -OT is or may be
masculine as regards its grammar gender.
Of course the great rule in Hebrew is that ending -OT points to the plural
feminine.

In some of the languages I know, say French or Spanish, this happens: a noun
originally being plural neuter in Latin becomes singular feminine in French
and Spanish:

Samples:

-Latin "acta", plural neuter, *the things that have been done*, becomes in
French a singular feminine: "Cette acte n'est pas complète"

-Latin  "nomina", plural neuter, *the names*, becomes in Spanish a singular
feminine: "Mi nómina es elevada"

and so on.

But maybe this a different phaenomenon because it is dealt here with a
borrowing from another language (which is, however, the mother of the other
two)...


Hearty,

Pere Porta

On 22 February 2010 07:09, Yodan <yodan AT yodanco.com> wrote:

>  Pere,
>
>
>
> I do agree with you that ASHPA has the two meanings you mentioned.
> According to Even Shoshan Concordance, the Tanakh has 13 occurrences of
> Ashpa (including its plurals) – 6 of which have the meaning “case for
> arrows” and the other seven are “refuse heap”.
>
>
>
> However, according to this concordance, the noun in all of these
> occurrences is feminine.
>
>
>
> The Gesenius (Brown, Driver, and Briggs) Biblical Hebrew Dictionary,
> divides these words into two groups. The first one, Ashpa, meaning “case for
> arrows”, is listed as a feminine noun. The second one is listed under the
> root Shin.Pei.Hei, meaning “refuse heap”, where the gender is stated as
> possibly masculine – written as [m] (i.e. M in square brackets).
>
>
>
> Do you have other sources for the gender of these words?
>
>
>
> Also, does Ashpot need to be a singular masculine in the verses you
> mentioned? Why can’t it be the plural of Ashpa?
>
> The way these words are listed in the Even Shoshan Concordance it is clear
> that this concordance considered Ashpot to be the plural of Ashpa.
>
> The Mandelkern Concordance also lists Ashpot and Ashpatot as a plural (but
> the gender is not indicated).
>
>
>
> Rivka Sherman-Gold
>
>
>
> *********************************
>
> <http://www.calisraventures/>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Pere Porta [mailto:pporta7 AT gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:28 PM
> *To:* yodan AT yodanco.com
>
> *Cc:* b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> *Subject:* Re: [b-hebrew] Better concordance?
>
>
>
> Rivka,
>
>
>
> yes, you're right if we deal with the formal appearance of the word, namely
> the form we see and read...
>
> But in its use in 1Sa 2:8; Psa 113:7; Neh 3:14 and other places this noun
> is used as a singular masculine.
>
> Remark that in these verses  A$POT has no meaning related to that of A$PFH,
> *quiver for arrows* (Job 39:23).
>
>
>
> Maybe it is a plural feminine fossilized form? It is possible.
>
> But... that is used in the forementioned verses as a singular masculine
> with a quite different meaning from that of A$PFH...
>
>
>
> You will agree with me that a *quiver for arrows* has nothing to do with a
> * refuse-heap*...
>
>
>
> Pere Porta
>
>
>
>
>
> On 21 February 2010 22:38, Yodan <yodan AT yodanco.com> wrote:
>
> Pere Porta wrote: "Now, regarding "A$POT",… its is a masculine noun meaning
> *refuse-heap, a beggar's resting place.*"
>
>
>
> Ashpa is a feminine noun. Ashpot and Ashpatot are plural forms of the
> feminine noun Ashpa.
>
>
>
> Rivka Sherman-gold
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:
> b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Pere Porta
> Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:38 PM
> To: Doug Belot
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Better concordance?
>
>
>
> >
>
> > > Dear list members,
>
> > >
>
> > > I had many situations over the years where I couldn't find a word in
>
> > > Abraham Even-Shoshan concordance. The latest was when I tried to locate
>
> > > "me'ashpatot yarim evyon" (can't remember where it is in the HB [has to
>
> > be
>
> > > a Psalm] or translate it) - ashpatot is not mentioned at all, only
> ashpa,
>
> > > and I could not find the verb yarim in any form, in any binyan. Is
> there
>
> > a
>
> > > better, really complete Hebrew concordance of the HB?
>
> > >
>
> > > thanks,
>
> > >
>
> > > Noam Eitan, Brooklyn, NY
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> ______________
>
>
>
> Dear Noam,
>
>
>
> Several years ago I used the "Davidson", where every word that appears in
>
> the Hebrew Bible is fully parsed, but I have it nor more on my desk. Maybe
>
> you could acquire it... I think the full author's name is Benjamin
> Davidson.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now, regarding "A$POT", I think it should be found in a usual Concordance
>
> because it appears both in Psa 113:7 and in 1Sa 2:8: its is a masculine
> noun
>
> meaning *refuse-heap, a beggar's resting place.*
>
>
>
> I assume you know that the "M" in the beginning is the well known
>
> preposition "MN", that means *from, since...*
>
> **
>
> Regarding "YFRYM" is comes from "RWM", *be high*. It is a Hiph'il form
>
> (Imperfect, third person singular masculine)
>
> Look at www.oham.net/out/PI-d/PI-d066.html
>
>
>
> EBYWN I think you should find it in your dictionary: it is an adjective
>
> meaning "(male) poor". It appears as such 15 times in the Bible.
>
>
>
> Maybe this helps?
>
>
>
> Hearty,
>
>
>
> Pere Porta
>
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Span)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> --
>
> Pere Porta
>
> "Ei nekrói ouk eguéirontai, fágomen kai píomen áurion gar apothnéskomen"
>
> (1Cor 15:32)
>
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