Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>]

Rivka,

I categorically deny the existence in Hebrew of an actual schwa NA(.  
I think that people who "move" this schwa, replacing it by a (short)  
E, or what not, are misguided by the terminology, where NA( meant  
originally, methinks, "leaning forward" or opening a syllable.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Feb 24, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Yodan wrote:

> I noticed, but the question is – do you not consider the Shva under  
> Beit to be a vowel? It’s a Shva Na, so it is a vowel, even though a  
> short one, so – back to my question – what’s in your view the  
> difference between BEIT in Diber and in Dibra?
>
> Rivka Sherman-Gold
>
> *********************************
> From: Isaac Fried [mailto:if AT math.bu.edu]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:14 PM
> To: yodan AT yodanco.com
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org Hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Any meaning to the Dagesh?
>
> Notice what I have said before about the natural doubling of a  
> consonant between two vowels.
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:56 PM, Yodan wrote:
>
>
> Isaac,
>
> You say "notice that no doubling may occur in DIBRAH". It seems  
> that you are contrasting this with DIBBER. But it's not clear:
>
> Are you saying that neither Diber nor Dibra had ever had doubling  
> OR are you saying that while Diber may have had doubling (even  
> though you don’t think so), it’s obvious that Dibra may not have  
> doubling.
>
> In short, is there, in your view, a difference between Diber and  
> Dibra with respect to the dagesh in Beit? If so, what's the  
> difference?
>
> (Apologies if I misunderstood what you were saying.)
>
> Rivka Sherman-Gold
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew- 
> bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Isaac Fried
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:26 PM
> To: Jason Hare
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Any meaning to the Dagesh?
>
> Jason,
>
> Arab diction has its peculiarities which are of no concern to Hebrew.
> There is a universally natural doubling of a consonant located
> between two vowels, for instance DIBBER, 'he spoke', but this has
> nothing to do with the dagesh in the B. There is no indication that
> an exaggerated, over-natural, doubling, say DIB---BER, was ever
> practiced in Hebrew.
> I think that the purpose of the dagesh in B of DBR is only to
> indicate the lack of the preceding vowel I.
> Notice that no doubling may occur in DIBRAH, 'she spoke'.
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 1:04 PM, Jason Hare wrote:
>
> > I'll bite. If shadda doesn't represent the doubling of a consonant,
> > what
> > does it represent? The same question with the dagesh chazak?
> >
> > They are indeed the same thing, as Uri stated.
> >
> > Jason Hare
> > Rehovot, Israel
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> The Arabic Shadda is not the Hebrew dagesh XAZAQ.
> >>
> >> Isaac Fried
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
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