Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Stephen Shead <srshead+bh AT gmail.com>]

Lloyd,

I'm a little confused! If I didn't make myself clear before, I do not agree
with your translation of BR)$T in Gen 1:1. Yes, I agree that B has a
temporal sense here. But for that reason, "as a beginning, elohim
created..." is a bad translation: "as" (in that context) is not a temporal
preposition at all. On the other hand, "in the beginning" is a temporal
translation of B, and is perfectly adequate. "In the beginning" is *not* a
locative translation of B.

Stephen Shead
Santiago, Chile

2009/2/6 LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>

> Thank you.  I am glad you took my meaning.  Do you agree?
>
> Lloyd Barré
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 2/6/09, Stephen Shead 
> <srshead+bh AT gmail.com<srshead%2Bbh AT gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
> From: Stephen Shead <srshead+bh AT gmail.com <srshead%2Bbh AT gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: B in Gen 1:1 (was Hebrew considerations)
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org, l_barre AT yahoo.com
> Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 1:41 PM
>
>
> Lloyd,
>
> You wrote:
> 'Also, in Genesis 1, the first preposition, b, should be translated as
> temporal rather than locative as is so commonly done.  Thus, I would
> interpret, "as a beginning, elohim created . . , not "in the beginning . .
> ."'
>
> This is a miniscule point, but I think you have it the wrong way around:
> "in the beginning" *is* a temporal translation of B, not a locative one,
> whereas your translation doesn't render B either temporally or locatively.
>
> Perhaps your confusion is with the word "in", whose most "basic" meaning
> (shall we say) is a locative one. But in line with the human propensity to
> interpret temporal experience by analogy with spatial experience, it also
> has a very common and normal temporal sense ("during the time of"). So "in
> the kitchen" uses the locative sense of "in", whereas "in the 16th century"
> uses the temporal sense.
>
> In the context of Gen 1:1, the preposition "in" in the phrase "in the
> beginning" establishes a temporal relationship between "the beginning" and
> "God created...".
>
> But your translation does not render B temporally at all. The temporal bit
> in your translation is the substantive "beginning" itself - R)$T - but the
> prepositional relationship "as" is not temporal translation of B at all; it
> means something like "by way of".
>
> Stephen Shead
> Centro de Estudios Pastorales
> Santiago, Chile
>
> 2009/2/5 <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>
>> From: LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>
>> To: Ancient Bible History <AncientBibleHistory AT yahoogroups.com>, b-Hebrew
>> <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:27:03 -0800 (PST)
>> Subject: [b-hebrew] Hebrew considerations
>> The interest in a consistent transliteration system for Hebrew leads me to
>> think that this list, called "b-Hebrew," has an interest in the language.
>> Perhaps I could offer some help on this topic with a brief discussion of 
>> the
>> verbal system:
>>
>> There are seven basic stems in pairs of active and passive:
>>
>> Qal -Niphal
>> Piel-Paul
>> Hiphil-Hophal
>> Hithpael is middle voice
>>
>> There is an active and passive participle
>> qatol and qatul
>>
>> Also the infinitive construct.
>>
>> The stems are determined by reading the infix patterns.
>>
>> There is also the perfect and imperfect aspects.  This is not tense but
>> archionsart or type of action.  The action is conceived as either complete
>> or incomplete and may be applied to any tense.
>>
>> There is also waw consecutive with the first verb in a sequence determines
>> the aspect of all verbs connected by the conjuction waw.
>>
>> The issue that might be open to discussion is whether or not we are right
>> to see the qtl and yqtl forms as communication aspect rather that time of
>> action.
>>
>> Also, in Genesis 1, the first preposition, b, should be translated as
>> temporal rather than locative as is so commonly done.  Thus, I would
>> interpret, "as a beginning, elohim created . . , not "in the beginning . .
>> ."
>>
>> Lloyd Barré
>> http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
>>
>>
>
>
>