Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Stephen Shead <srshead+bh AT gmail.com>]

Lloyd,

I will try to explain what I mean again. You said that B should be
translated as temporal in Gen 1:1, and I wholly agree.

First, let's consider again the traditional translation "In the
beginning...". You asserted that this is a locative translation of B. That
is simply not true. The preposition "in" can be either locative or temporal,
depending on whether its object is a location ("in the room") or a time
reference ("in the second year of his reign"). It is exactly the same with,
for instance, the preposition "at": it may be locative ("at the big tree")
or temporal ("at that moment"). In Gen 1:1, the object of the preposition is
a time reference ("beginning"), so the context clearly obliges us to read it
as a temporal "in", i.e. "during the time of the beginning, God created...".
We could also use "At the beginning, God created...", and any native English
speaker will immediately interpret the preposition as a temporal "at (the
time of)".

Now, let's consider your translation "As a beginning, elohim created...". In
this usage, "as" is not temporal in meaning - it does not mean "during the
time of" here. Rather, it means something like "being" or maybe "to function
as". Roughly speaking, the entire sentence (in your translation) would have
the sense: "Elohim created the heavens and the earth - this constituted a
first step [to his work??]"

If the phrase "as a beginning" does have a temporal sense, that is entirely
due to the temporal word "beginning". If we change it, the non-temporal
nature of "as" becomes clear; for instance, "As a show of his power, elohim
created the heavens and the earth". Same sense of "as", but an entirely
atemporal phrase.

Incidentally, your translation also changes the meaning of "beginning" from
an absolute time period to something like "a first step" (what was the next
one??).

Summary: If B is a temporal preposition, "In the beginning" is a possible
translation, but "As a beginning" is not.

Am I being clear?? If not, I'll have to give up... :)

Stephen Shead
Santiago, Chile

2009/2/7 LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>

> Why is "as a beginning . . ." a bad translation?
>
> Lloyd Barré
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 2/7/09, Stephen Shead 
> <srshead+bh AT gmail.com<srshead%2Bbh AT gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
> From: Stephen Shead <srshead+bh AT gmail.com <srshead%2Bbh AT gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: B in Gen 1:1 (was Hebrew considerations)
> To: l_barre AT yahoo.com, "b-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 12:36 AM
>
>
> Lloyd,
>
> I'm a little confused! If I didn't make myself clear before, I do not agree
> with your translation of BR)$T in Gen 1:1. Yes, I agree that B has a
> temporal sense here. But for that reason, "as a beginning, elohim
> created..." is a bad translation: "as" (in that context) is not a temporal
> preposition at all. On the other hand, "in the beginning" is a temporal
> translation of B, and is perfectly adequate. "In the beginning" is *not* a
> locative translation of B.
>
> Stephen Shead
> Santiago, Chile
>
> 2009/2/6 LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>
>
>>   Thank you.  I am glad you took my meaning.  Do you agree?
>>
>> Lloyd Barré
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 2/6/09, Stephen Shead 
>> <srshead+bh AT gmail.com<srshead%2Bbh AT gmail.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>> From: Stephen Shead <srshead+bh AT gmail.com <srshead%2Bbh AT gmail.com>>
>> Subject: Re: B in Gen 1:1 (was Hebrew considerations)
>> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org, l_barre AT yahoo.com
>> Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 1:41 PM
>>
>>
>> Lloyd,
>>
>> You wrote:
>> 'Also, in Genesis 1, the first preposition, b, should be translated as
>> temporal rather than locative as is so commonly done.  Thus, I would
>> interpret, "as a beginning, elohim created . . , not "in the beginning . .
>> ."'
>>
>> This is a miniscule point, but I think you have it the wrong way around:
>> "in the beginning" *is* a temporal translation of B, not a locative one,
>> whereas your translation doesn't render B either temporally or locatively.
>>
>> Perhaps your confusion is with the word "in", whose most "basic" meaning
>> (shall we say) is a locative one. But in line with the human propensity to
>> interpret temporal experience by analogy with spatial experience, it also
>> has a very common and normal temporal sense ("during the time of"). So "in
>> the kitchen" uses the locative sense of "in", whereas "in the 16th century"
>> uses the temporal sense.
>>
>> In the context of Gen 1:1, the preposition "in" in the phrase "in the
>> beginning" establishes a temporal relationship between "the beginning" and
>> "God created...".
>>
>> But your translation does not render B temporally at all. The temporal bit
>> in your translation is the substantive "beginning" itself - R)$T - but the
>> prepositional relationship "as" is not temporal translation of B at all; it
>> means something like "by way of".
>>
>> Stephen Shead
>> Centro de Estudios Pastorales
>> Santiago, Chile
>>
>> 2009/2/5 <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>>
>>> From: LM Barre <l_barre AT yahoo.com>
>>> To: Ancient Bible History <AncientBibleHistory AT yahoogroups.com>,
>>> b-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 15:27:03 -0800 (PST)
>>> Subject: [b-hebrew] Hebrew considerations
>>> The interest in a consistent transliteration system for Hebrew leads me
>>> to think that this list, called "b-Hebrew," has an interest in the
>>> language.  Perhaps I could offer some help on this topic with a brief
>>> discussion of the verbal system:
>>>
>>> There are seven basic stems in pairs of active and passive:
>>>
>>> Qal -Niphal
>>> Piel-Paul
>>> Hiphil-Hophal
>>> Hithpael is middle voice
>>>
>>> There is an active and passive participle
>>> qatol and qatul
>>>
>>> Also the infinitive construct.
>>>
>>> The stems are determined by reading the infix patterns.
>>>
>>> There is also the perfect and imperfect aspects.  This is not tense but
>>> archionsart or type of action.  The action is conceived as either complete
>>> or incomplete and may be applied to any tense.
>>>
>>> There is also waw consecutive with the first verb in a sequence
>>> determines the aspect of all verbs connected by the conjuction waw.
>>>
>>> The issue that might be open to discussion is whether or not we are right
>>> to see the qtl and yqtl forms as communication aspect rather that time of
>>> action.
>>>
>>> Also, in Genesis 1, the first preposition, b, should be translated as
>>> temporal rather than locative as is so commonly done.  Thus, I would
>>> interpret, "as a beginning, elohim created . . , not "in the beginning . .
>>> ."
>>>
>>> Lloyd Barré
>>> http://freewebs.com/lmbarre
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>