Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Rev. Jim Cunningham" <kjv_gods_word AT yahoo.com>]

Hi,
   
  I'm new here and I just read your posts. I've always considered the issue 
of virgin vs young woman an interesting and important issue.
   
  The Hebrew word used was Alma in the Old Testament, as you know. As a Jew I 
can tell you that it does not simply mean "young woman", although it is 
describing a young woman. Alma specifically means a maiden or damsel - a 
young woman who has not been married/sexually touched. There is no such thing 
as an "alma" who has had sex. She ceases to be alma after sexual intercourse. 
Therefore, though "virgin" is not the strict definition of alma, "alma" does 
most certainly and emphatically refer to a virgin young woman. Besides this, 
the point of the verse in question declares that this pregnancy is a "sign", 
and the verse itself is a prophecy of that pregnancy and birth. "Young women" 
give birth all the time. There is no sign or miracle in that. "Unmarried 
young women" also give birth all the time, so there is no miracle in that 
either. The focus of the verse is that a miracle will take place, a sign - a 
sexually untouched "maiden" girl will conceive and give birth to Immanuel.
 The New Testament writers, when quoting this verse, specifically used the 
Greek word "parthenos" - a virgin (we see this word in use with the 
Parthenon, referring to a vigin goddess). So in the minds of the Gospel 
writers, who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the young 
woman's virginity was indisputable.
  Kindly,
  Rev. Jim Cunningham
  King James Bible Ministries

       
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>From hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net  Mon Jul  9 19:48:20 2007
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Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:48:39 -0500
From: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] virgin vs. young woman
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Dear Jim,
>   =20
>   I'm new here and I just read your posts. I've always considered the i=
ssue of virgin vs young woman an interesting and important issue.
>   =20
>   The Hebrew word used was Alma in the Old Testament, as you know. As a=
 Jew I can tell you that it does not simply mean "young woman", although =
it is describing a young woman. Alma specifically means a maiden or damse=
l - a young woman who has not been married/sexually touched.

HH: Being a Jew does not necessarily give you special insight about=20
meaning of 'almah. Non-Christian Jews through the centuries have argued=20
that the word did not have to mean "virgin." Here is a quote from Wikiped=
ia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

 From the earliest days of Christianity, Jewish critics have argued that =

Christians were mistaken in their reading of almah in Isaiah 7:14.[17]=20
Because the author of Matthew 1:23, believed that Jesus was born of a=20
virgin, he quoted Isaiah: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and=20
shall bring forth a son" as a proof-text for the divine origin of Jesus. =

Jewish scholars declare that Matthew is in error, that the word almah=20
means young woman (just as the male equivalent elem means young man). It =

does not denote a virgin or sexual purity but age. Because a different=20
Hebrew word, bethulah =D7=91=D7=AA=D7=95=D7=9C=D7=94(" "), is most common=
ly used for virgin even=20
in modern Hebrew, the prophet could not have meant virgin in Isaiah 7:14.=


HH: Here's a quote from another source:
http://jbrooks2.tripod.com/Notorious_Virgin_Birth_Fraud.html

Almah means simply a young woman, of marriageable age, whether married=20
or not, or a virgin or not; in a broad general sense exactly like girl=20
or maid in English, when we say shop-girl, parlor-maid, bar-maid,=20
without reference to or vouching for her technical virginity, which, in=20
Hebrew, is always expressed by the word bethulah. But in the Septuagint=20
translation into Greek, the Hebrew almah was erroneously rendered into=20
the Greek parthenos, Virgin.
"As early as the second century B.C.," says the distinguished Hebrew=20
scholar and critic, Salomon Reinach, "the Jews perceived the error and=20
pointed it out to the Greeks; but the Church knowingly persisted in the=20
false reading, and for over fifteen centuries she has clung to her=20
error." (Orpheus, p, 197.) The truth of this accusation of conscious=20
persistence in known error through the centuries is proved by confession =

of St. Jerome, who made the celebrated Vulgate translation from the=20
Hebrew into Latin, and intentionally "clung to the error," though Jerome =

well knew that it was an error and false; and thus he perpetuated=20
through fifteen hundred years the myth of the "Prophetic Virgin Birth"=20
of Jesus called Christ.
Being criticized by many for this falsification, St. Jerome thus replies =

to one of his critics, Juvianus: "I know that the Jews are accustomed to =

meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a =

Virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly=20
called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but=20
Naarah"! (Jerome, Adv. Javianum I, 32; N&PNF, vi, 370.)

HH: Also see the bottom of this online source for another Jewish writer=20
taking the same view. I don't really agree with them but admit with you=20
that the word does not seem to technically mean
"virgin."
>  There is no such thing as an "alma" who has had sex.

HH: This remains somewhat debatable, depending on the interpretations=20
you give the word in its various OT occurrences. I do take them all to=20
refer to virgins, but it is not necessary to do so.

>  She ceases to be alma after sexual intercourse. Therefore, though "vir=
gin" is not the strict definition of alma, "alma" does most certainly and=
 emphatically refer to a virgin young woman. Besides this, the point of t=
he verse in question declares that this pregnancy is a "sign", and the ve=
rse itself is a prophecy of that pregnancy and birth. "Young women" give =
birth all the time. There is no sign or miracle in that. "Unmarried young=
 women" also give birth all the time, so there is no miracle in that eith=
er. The focus of the verse is that a miracle will take place, a sign - a =
sexually untouched "maiden" girl will conceive and give birth to Immanuel=
=2E
>  The New Testament writers, when quoting this verse, specifically used =
the Greek word "parthenos" - a virgin (we see this word in use with the P=
arthenon, referring to a vigin goddess). So in the minds of the Gospel wr=
iters, who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the young woma=
n's virginity was indisputable.
>  =20

HH: I agree with the general thrust of your argument throughout, but a=20
sign does not have to be miraculous, even if God is the author of it. If =

you check the word for sign throughout the OT, you will see that this is =

the case. Now, the fact that Isaiah's words were precisely fulfilled=20
gave them the quality of the miraculous, whether or not the girl was a=20
virgin. I believe she was, and that the words had a fulfillment in=20
Isaiah's time. This is important. The words had a fulfillment in=20
Isaiah's time. They also had a fulfillment in the birth of Christ, but=20
in a different way.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard

=2E
>   Kindly,
>   Rev. Jim Cunningham
>   King James Bible Ministries
>
>       =20
> ---------------------------------
> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo=
! TV.=20
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